Thinking that these baby assessment (SS) are spectacularly late.

[LoveMyPiano]

Friend/neighbour is - as I posted months ago - pregnant (again) and due around 21/2.

This baby, as have two prior to this, most likely to be taken into "the system" - BUT, certain assessments need to be done. She is still getting legal help over the adoption of the last one, and what she "wants" (which is I think, annual photos), and now there is of course cross-over of the cases regarding these two babies (last one is now 18 months old and with adoptive parents - finally; it took a while). But she could easily give birth to this one at any moment, and to still be getting assessed, seems so late minute!

They are still saying that they will not be completed, and thus, a decision made, until mid-February. And yet they will be critical of the fact that she has not made much preparation herself.

I have obviously failed with regard to boundary setting - although some ARE respected. I simply cannot turn my back on her - and am slight pissed off at her parents (themselves adopters and foster parents) who do seem to be supportive with this, which is why a lot of it falls on me.

Does anyone else think that this should have been settled - as much as it can be long before now, It would be hard enough on someone without mental struggles (part of why, 1. theses children and taken away from her, and 2. she keeps getting pregnant....) - so being to late with these processes it almost tantamount.

Or any official perspective would be greatly welcome as well.....

Ugh - "tantamount to cruelty"
Parents are NOT supportive

This is literally none of your business

Give her advice on getting on some decent contraception.

Aside from that it's none of your business.

The system can only cope with so much given that people like her just have babies without thinking despite contraception being free and readily available in the UK, so I'm sure the social workers etc are doing their absolute best & would move faster is they had capacity

You can't base a decision to remove a baby on an assessment done early in pregnancy. The mother's barrister would argue that things have changed and she needs up to date assessments. That's why it's 'last minute'.

Sorry but it is. She MAKES it my business - and I do try to help, in a hands-off way.
She has not even been appointed an advocate this time....

Like looking after her hamster for while 😍

What do you expect them to do - make the decision before the baby is born? Take the baby away at birth? Make the decision in week one, when mum is recovering from giving birth?

It sounds like social services are very involved with this mum, every part of that will feed into the assessment. However they would only have a plan for removal at birth if there was the likelihood of immediate danger to the newborn.

The process is horrible but I don't think you've thought through what the alternatives would be?

You can say no.

Not sure what the love eyes thing is for or why you'd put an emoji.

I have obviously failed with regard to boundary setting - although some ARE respected. I simply cannot turn my back on her - and am slight pissed off at her parents (themselves adopters and foster parents) who do seem to be supportive with this, which is why a lot of it falls on me.

What does this actually mean? What’s your involvement?

You can step back, we all have our limits and if this is proving too stressful or upsetting that’s what you have to do. She’s got parents and SS involvement, maybe they’ll be forced to be more present if you aren’t doing so much.

But it depends on what you’re currently doing.

You can't do the assessments early because otherwise the judge will halt things to reassess, especially in the case of MH and/or addiction. Are you reading her files? I wouldn't judge the parents. SS/Court will want permanency plans as quick as possible, which means that the parents would have to decide to cut their daughter off and have a baby until adulthood, as you age that's hard going. She can put her lack of preparation because of the uncertainty to the court. The Judge makes the decisions, not SS.

I agree with that, and see why it may be late-ish - but this late?
Baby could arrive any minute really....
And it does seem unfair to subject someone so far along to this.

Why are you so involved? Trust the process and let the professionals do their job

The😍is for the hamster.

Also, she is entitled to an advocate. Tbh until I worked in children and family services, I would have got sucked in. Remember this is going to be about a very vulnerable newborn baby. Ask yourself if you would be happy to live in a locked room and be totally reliant on her, then remember that a baby is a 100 times more likely to die from neglect. That neglect could be two missed feeds/too cold/not kept clean etc and there's life changing damage.

It is late, that's true. The social work team probably weren't able to prioritise it earlier due to workload pressures. You don't want to know what social workers are managing at the moment, it's a joke

I do not - am not allowed - to read her files.
I have in my hand though a letter from her Solicitor, which gives dates of the assessments, which are - to my mind - stupidly late.
She WANTS me to read these things, but I do believe her parents should help her more with this, Isn't that what anyone would hope for?

If there is a chance at all of a Mother & Baby Unit, then surely, she should be helped to change her behaviours to achieve that option. If it is not, then it should not even be on the table.

Or I may be totally wrong.....

Because the parent has the right to evidence change, or ability to change
Because the baby needs to exist for aspects of the parenting to be assessed
Because court paperwork can't be filed until after baby is born
Because mum needs to be allowed to recover from the birth, and that includes things like assessing for PND which could affect mums capacity/decision making
Because after court paperwork (including assessments) are filed mum and other professionals need to be allowed time to read it, get legal advice, and write formal responses, all of which will be taken into account by a judge.

I worry that you're supporting this mum when you don't seem to have basic common sense that making a decision on a baby who will max 3-4 weeks old from the info you've given is doing so 'spectacularly late'. What you rather they do, c section at 36 weeks and run off with it?

Yes - that is the big worry - and why there is, I guess, even any mention of the M&B unit....
She is insistent that she would never do harm, but there are of course, many ways to do harm, some of which are "passive", I guess.
I am aware that in the highly unlikely event that baby came home with her, she would rely on me, and has already named me on official paperwork without my prior knowledge.

Why don't you think that this wasn't all offered with the last pregnancy/baby? She's failed to keep residency within the last year. What's changed? If she is that mentally unwell that she couldn't get a coil fitted, could she honestly be a carer for a baby? Her parents probably have no more to give and how many of her children will they be expected to take on?

She can't rely on you. SS would interview you, assess you and you would have to go to court and state that you would be the primary carer, supporting and assessing her. You are being very naive.

They do often leave them to the last minute, it's not unheard of for the decision not to be made until the baby is here, especially if mum goes into Labour early. They then won't let the baby leave the hospital with mum until a decision is made, which yes does seem very cruel to let a new mum wait for a decision on whether she can take her baby home or not. Some areas have programs for mums who repeatedly have babies taken, has she engaged with one? Is there a possibility she will be taking this baby home? Or are circumstances not that different from 18 months ago?

Actually I've just realised you've said baby is due 21/2 not 21/1

If that's the case they're considering removal at birth, but as I've said, all of the involvement they have with her will be feeding into their assessment. If baby arrives early, assessment will be filed early. There are strict guidelines for how soon the application goes to court for a newborn if it is expected to be required.

Maybe her parents recognise that it’s not in the best interest of the child to remain with their mother. Changing behaviours and recovering from mental ill health is not a quick thing. Depending on the nature of her mental illness it could take years or even decades. The child shouldn’t be sacrificed to that if it means there will be risk of neglect or abuse.

has already named me on official paperwork without my prior knowledge.

You can say no ...

@Proteinpudding
"It is clear that the Local Authority will issue a Court application once your baby is born but until the PAMS assessment has been finished, it is not clear what the Local Authority will be asking for."

I can fully understand that certain matters are do not take place until baby is here, but these assessment have previously taken place PRIOR to birth - and it is them that seem to have been dragged out.

Supporting her in the way I am, does not mean at ALL that I agree with what is happening regarding these births; I certainly do NOT agree and I tried very hard to cut her off when she became pregnant this time. I was very very harsh and cold at that time.

As it is almost 100% likely that this baby too will go into Care, my common sense, or lack of, will not be required anyway.

They do think baby will be best off taken away, but that doesn't mean that they can't support her through the process.
(They adopted her from a very similar birth mother after all....)