Cosmetic surgery DOES affect others

[EmmaDilemma5]

I'm sick of reading people who defend others cosmetic surgery/procedures with;

"it's their body, they can do as they please"

"Each to their own"

"If it makes them feel happier then what's the harm?"

The harm is, that it sets a ridiculous standard that most (usually young women) can't meet naturally and therefore feel pressured to undergo changes to their body to look "good".

It's not a personal decision, because collectively, it's impacting society norms and pressures on people.

I'm not talking about those that truly help people with abnormally different features. I totally get why someone with ears that grow out at 90° may want them pinned back. Or someone with a huge nose may want to reduce it to a more "normal" size. I still hope they'd feel fine in their own skin but get why the majority of people may struggle with largely unusual features.

But I am actually angry sometimes at those that "enhance" normal looks. Lip fillers, tattoo makeup on eyebrows, lips, boob jobs. It seems to me that the majority of women who have these procedures have very normal features before having them and it's just really sad that they feel they need to undergo them to feel ok.

Lip fillers are the worst for me. It's affordable and easy to arrange. I fear my daughter will grow up thinking her lips aren't big enough (if her parents' are anything to go by anyway) because every other person seems to have massive lips and to look beautiful she'll need to pump her face with crap.

When do we say, enough is enough, we don't want the next generation living like this?!

For everybody saying my lips are bulbous and my forehead shiny / smoothed out. Thank you! I'm glad I have naturally full lips and a smooth noggin.

I repeat. I have no filler in my lips, and no Botox in my forehead.

This proving my point that a lot of these people trying to split hairs in womens appearance actually have no idea what they're looking at, as the work I've had done to my face is not in my lips, nose or forehead.

Because you're kidding yourself, and I don't know why. It's like someone using anti-ageing cream and being outraged when told they want to look younger than their years. It's fine. It's a mainstream pursuit, with an obvious goal. What's the problem?

I know you say there's no filler now but have you ever had any filler/Botox around your lips/general lip area/below your nose etc?

You are very brave. I knew you were going to get bitchy comments.

And now they'll accuse you of lying. Like that one who can't or won't understand that people have procedures for any reason other than "looking younger". Who literally doesn't know how "frowny" doesn't mean "older" and therefore insists the difference doesn't exist and we're all wrong about what we ask and pay for.

@StalkedByASpider I have never had any lip filler in my lips / nose / mouth area.

My lips have never been touched. I have had filler on the bottom half of my face, but none that would change the appearance of my lips at all.

The problem is you insisting that your inability to understand the difference between two words somehow equates to me being a liar when I use them.

@ReneBumsWombats I know, fully prepared to get a battering from all the ageing gracefully wouldn't even touch a tinted moisturiser mod don't worry. Seen and heard it all before!

At school I was bullied for my face. And now I have women online bullying people for what they choose to do. And they're the ones that start barking on about KiNdNeSs CoStS NoThInG

Yawwwwwn

Ha!

You have a lovely face. Take pride in the fact that people think it's too good to be true.

I have mixed views on this.

On one hand, it's nice to have the option to erase a few lines and stay looking fresh and young. At least in the face anyway. And in principle, everyone should have the right to do whatever they want to feel good about themselves.

But at the same time, I really hate the way our culture now almost demands that women have Botox and fillers etc to be seen as attractive.

Our young women are expected to pump up their lips, attach massive fake eyelashes even if they're just going to Tesco, and be plucked, plumped, smoothed, and filled to within an inch of their lives.

It's a sanitised, artificial look, even when it's done well.

So while in theory I get the desire to have Botox etc, I think it's deeply harmful and just adds to the pressure for women to look young and perfect. While some men do have Botox, they're not having anywhere near the treatments that women are, and society embraces male ageing in a way that it doesn't for women.

I really hate the way our culture now almost demands that women have Botox and fillers etc to be seen as attractive.

Does it? We have a boatload of people on here telling us how ugly we are for it. They even made disgusting comments to a woman who hasn't had these things done, because they thought she had. (It was entirely possible to say that they thought she'd had xyz done without using horrible terms like "bulbous" and "blown up".)

But at the same time, I really hate the way our culture now almost demands that women have Botox and fillers etc to be seen as attractive

Not only that but it seems from the thread that if you're say a 50 year old woman who works in the City you're expected to have botox and fillers. That could have repercussions when it comes to getting a job if you look much older than your peers, given that ageism exists. So there is a societal issue of what's expected.

People seem horrified that they've had 11s and been asked if they look angry. Maybe they were angry at the time. Could've used it to get a seat on the bus

Each to their own imo. I’ve had numerous bits done and numerous bits dissolved or altered.

The only people that seem mad are those making derogatory remarks towards those who’ve had bits done.

It’s coming across very mean girl and not very female friendly.

My daughter is 20, at university and very self assured.
I support her life choices 100% because she’s a grown adult with bodily autonomy.

FFS let people live without having to hold some type of superior moral high ground opinion that you’re pushing onto everyone else. (In the same way that that Andrew Tate brigade are doing)

OK, you’re happy with your lines and whatever. Some women aren’t, and that’s ok.

Don’t let your insecurities push you into coming here to be a d**k head to other females.
We see you. It’s not cute.

It makes them feel superior. That’s all

Beauty is subjective though.

Sone people like the big lipped look. Some people don’t care for a natural look.

Cant we just live and let live and accept that we all have different standards and motivations? And that not wanting to ‘grow old gracefully’ doesn’t make you vain or delusional. The message that women revel in not wearing make up or being feminine is just as damaging that the pressure of looking young.

Our young women are expected to pump up their lips, attach massive fake eyelashes even if they're just going to Tesco, and be plucked, plumped, smoothed, and filled to within an inch of their lives

First of all, they are not. The look described here is an aesthetic pursued by a minority of young girls that happens to be popular right now. It’s more in line
with body modification than anti-ageing since the goals are very different.

While some men do have Botox, they're not having anywhere near the treatments that women are, and society embraces male ageing in a way that it doesn't for women

I don’t think society embraces ageing for men either. If they don’t fit into the ‘silver Fox’ aesthetic (ala George Clooney, who had freely admitted he’d got work done), then they had aged poorly, in society’s eyes.

frankly, ageing sucks for everyone

People seem horrified that they've had 11s and been asked if they look angry. Maybe they were angry at the time.

I was angry and sad at the time my 11s appeared, yes. Then I stopped, but the fuckers were still there, all the time. I don't want to look like I'm angry when I'm not. When I'm angry, I'll make sure you know somehow. I can still frown when I want to.

People seem horrified that they've had 11s and been asked if they look angry. Maybe they were angry at the time. Could've used it to get a seat on the bus Grin

I wasn't angry. I naturally frown when I concentrate. DD does it too. All the funny comments about how she has my frown - lovely 🙄It's not hugely surprising that I prefer that people don't asusme I am angry/ worried all the time is it?

No it was a genuine question. Hilarious that you are offended on someone’s behalf.

People often say ‘my face tells my story’ and I don’t know what that means or why one face tells a story and another wouldn’t.

It’s term that people use that, to me, has no meaning. So I asked someone who uses it, what they mean by it.

You version of the expression doesn’t make sense. 61 year old women don’t look a certain way. They all look different. What does someone ‘expect’ a 61 year old woman to look like. And how is looking ‘like you would expect’ telling any story?

Oh, I’m not offended. But you know that, also.

Before Botox, never mind an 11 mine was a 12 😂

I absolutely agree
There's an entire generation of men who expect a woman who gets undressed to have breasts that stay up because they have been fixed !

The few blokes I've ever heard comment preferred natural boobs. Said fake boobs were weird because they still stood up when she lies on her back. But maybe that's not so true of the Love Island generation.

Women are are expected to conform to those standards of beauty - but without having any work done. Of course that’s impossible so women have the work done. Just look how many very young women are having work done even on this thread - this isn’t even something that just applies as we age. Women must fulfil the stereotype of beauty at every moment - just look how many women use filters on their photos. And the trouble is, the techniques aren’t perfect or always applied with skill so often while wrinkles etc may disappear, there’s something slightly “off”. That might be a frozen forehead, an unnaturally puffy face or a smoothness which looks artificial.

I think there’s a frustration among fellow women who haven’t conformed. There is a rejection of these stereotypes of eternal youth and beauty and that sets up an “us and them” mentality. To flip that around, there’s some equally unpleasant comments on here about women who HAVEN’T had work done from those who have. If you don’t have work done, then you must look like an angry old hag and eeeewwww, who wants to look like that, right?!

As for the woman who received the comments - she voluntarily posted her photo and invited others to assess her face. That was her choice. And she has had work done. On a different thread no one would be making those comments, even if they secretly thought it - she literally posted and said tell me what you think so 🤷‍♀️

Lots of women do have an issue with being surrounded by others who have fillers, Botox etc. I think previously it felt more like a personal choice whereas now everyone who has fillers, Botox etc is contributing to the societal view that women must look a certain way. I’m not saying that’s fair but it’s true.

It’s more acceptable as a woman to look ugly than to look old.

Totally agree. It’s all influenced by pornography. It oppresses all women because it makes it less normal and less acceptable to just remain as you are, unaltered. Peak misogyny.

Hard disagree. It’s absolutely not a minority. That vision of beauty is everywhere and it’s rare to see a celebrity who’s lauded for her beauty who isn’t surgically altered. And that seems to be what the vast majority of women aspire to, in varying degrees.

Women don’t accept any kind of “flaw” in their appearance. There are women on this thread even who have had smoothing work done in their 20s and 30s! No matter what else, you must not commit the mortal sin of ageing.

Men are not held to the same standard. Look at Madonna. While I do think she’s utterly fucked her face up, even before that people were telling her to “put it away” and how disgusting she was for being provocative at an older age. Cue Tom Jones and Mick Jagger et al still grinding their hips and women swooning while men applaud. We are such a very, very long way from viewing older men and women in the same way. As you say, silver fox is one option for men. Bald men - also no problem. Men with deep wrinkles? They’re ok too because they’re “craggy” and “rugged”. The disparities go on. There are very, very few women who have naturally aged who are still considered sexy. Hence why so many chase the fallacy of continuing to look young and “fresh” even if it’s not a perfect application.

And I think “ageing sucks” because our bodies get creaky and don’t always work as well. The wrinkles in our face only “suck” because we’re told by society that we’re ugly if we show them - at least if you’re a woman.