Public toilets and changing rooms should be redesigned to keep everyone safe

[Quinoawoman]

I propose that by changing the design of public toilets and changing rooms, we can keep everyone safe.
Pic 1 - how most public toilets are now. Small, dark doorway into dark space that can't be seen from the outside. I've often worried that there could be someone hiding in there waiting to do me harm. Would not let my daughter in there alone. Would not let my son go in the gents alone.
Pic 2 - unisex cubicles (floor to ceiling) all with an individual door onto the street. Pull open the door and see the whole space - limited room for someone to hide. Door obviously lockable from inside. No more worrying about where to send your child whose sex is different from yours.

Changing rooms could be similar - individual cubicles straight off the shop floor. No more David Lloyd-style open changing spaces where you fear dropping your towel and flashing everyone.

YABU - changing rooms and toilets are fine as they are
YANBU - changing the design would be better for everyone.

Ah - so you agree that we all have a societal role to play in preventing rape? As you have done yourself?

Op can you explain why an increased risk to women doesn’t matter, but a small risk to males who identify as woman is unacceptable?

Why does male’s safety matter more to you? Why do you think women need to give up their hard won spaces for them at increased risk to ourselves, when they already have their own spaces?

I literally have not said any of that. You are constructing a straw man argument.

So you’re not arguing for males to have access to women’s spaces/replacing them with mixed sex spaces?

Did you provide them with feedback?

But that is the result of your argument. Statistics show women are less safe in mixed sex environments.

Sorry quinoa you may have missed my question

are you suggesting that most of the voters are happy sharing with men or more that they are happy using an individual cubicle that men have also used

I appreciate you are replying to lots of posts and this may have slipped by

The latter. The question in the initial post should make it clear. At the moment it's 60% YANBU. So it's close, but more decisive than brexit 🤣

You're right, I am replying to lots of people but at this point I'm going to take a break. I have stuff to do any many of the arguments appear to be getting personal, circular or as I have already stated, people are now constructing straw man arguments and suggesting that I couldn't give a shit about the safety of my own daughters, which is clearly bollocks.

I might come back later, but it's been nice playing with some of you.

We need more Chesterton fences.

And how do you propose women and girls will be protected from spy cameras when they share these spaces with men?

You are literally trying to remove some of women’s hard won rights, and then you play victim when people disagree with you or ask questions? Please 🙄

Go try proposing to remove rights from men and see how you get on.

God, it's endless, isn't it? The constant need to put men first, at all times, no matter how big the risk to women, to children, to our dignity and our safety. The status quo is the safest option for the largest and most vulnerable demographic. That's not trying to paint women as inherent victims, it's not painting all men as predatory, whatever their identity and whatever they wear. Pages and pages explaining which men are more vulnerable, why male on male rape should be prevented by women, why women don't matter, why women should make sure their sons don't rape rather than ensuring their daughters are allowed privacy from men...it never stops.

I hate toilets with floor to ceiling doors, and particularly ones that open into a public space like an open corridor - what if you don't lock it properly? If someone feels unwell out and about, often the place you will go will be a public toilet. But no one would know if you faint, collapse or need urgent medical help if you are in a fully enclosed public toilet.

Going forward, I would suggest male, female and a third space public toilet.

How do you know? Unless you check it someone tells you, you would not see any footage of you undressed uploaded to a porn site.

This is an odd point to make. Quite a lot of women are not sexually assaulted- are you claiming this means that no woman is sexually assaulted? We know that mixed sex changes villages generate a far higher proportion of sexual assaults - I hope you are not denying the facts.

@RichardBarrister I don't have stats, I'm not a researcher!

But you'd be pretty blinkered to think that transwomen going into men's toilets aren't at risk of physical and sexual assault. If my son grows up to be trans, I'd rather he pissed in the women's and got tutted at than went in the men's and got the shit kicked out of him, tbh.

I acknowledge the risk to women from having men in their spaces. I think there must be some kind of solution that lets everybody pee when they're out and about. I don't think it helps to pretend that transpeople aren't at risk at all, it's not a black and white issue.

Maybe we should bring back toilet attendants?

I hate the full door, opening onto the street toilets. If I'm feeling worried or uneasy about someone's behaviour I'm isolated. I can't see if they are hanging around outside and there's no-one to help. in old fashioned single sex toilets it's likely there'd be other women in there and passers by would challenge a male entering. Even if I was followed in there's a chance someone would come in afterwards and scare off or raise the alarm. Behind a solid door no-one can see what's happening.

So @Quinoawoman you said this re the possibility of butch women getting challenged in the toilets:

…and just because it hasn't happened to you, it doesn't mean it hasn't happened.

but then when I point out that women and girls have actually been harmed in mixed sexual changing facilities you said…

I have also used changing villages for years and never been assaulted. If what people have said on this thread is true - that they are dangerous for women - then does my experience, and that of millions of other women who use them, discount that?

So which is it? Do we discount the experiences of others because it hasn’t happened to one person attempting to make a point, or not?