Public toilets and changing rooms should be redesigned to keep everyone safe

[Quinoawoman]

I propose that by changing the design of public toilets and changing rooms, we can keep everyone safe.
Pic 1 - how most public toilets are now. Small, dark doorway into dark space that can't be seen from the outside. I've often worried that there could be someone hiding in there waiting to do me harm. Would not let my daughter in there alone. Would not let my son go in the gents alone.
Pic 2 - unisex cubicles (floor to ceiling) all with an individual door onto the street. Pull open the door and see the whole space - limited room for someone to hide. Door obviously lockable from inside. No more worrying about where to send your child whose sex is different from yours.

Changing rooms could be similar - individual cubicles straight off the shop floor. No more David Lloyd-style open changing spaces where you fear dropping your towel and flashing everyone.

YABU - changing rooms and toilets are fine as they are
YANBU - changing the design would be better for everyone.

Well said. We need to tackle the people who cause problems and commit offences. That needs action by councils, police, etc., and for "normal" people to call out such poor behaviour, report it, etc.

"Brushing it under the carpet" is not the answer.

Near to us, we had a problem with "cottaging" in a public toilet, which also led to a few male on male sexual assaults. Instead of dealing with the problem, the police/council decided to close down the toilet block. Guess what happened? The cottagers moved to a different toilet block a couple of miles away and then there were reports of a couple of male on male sexual assaults there too!

We need to address the problems head on, not just move the problem elsewhere!

How would you feel if your sex was questioned and you were refused entry to a women's toilet or changing room because some person thought you were a man due to your outfit? It has happened that women who have a more male appearance have been questioned.

Women's bodies are policed, trans people's bodies are policed, and I don't think it's accepable. That's why I think it's important that we look for a solution that keeps everyone safe.

www.hrc.org/resources/5-things-to-know-to-make-your-feminism-trans-inclusive

I've already posted a link further up the thread that shows how trans people are at risk in men's toilets.

Trans women aren't at risk tho because they are still men

Several of these examples are bunk because the man had access because he was the owner / caretaker etc, not because it was a unisex facility.

Have you never heard of male on male rape?

Who’s going to pay for them OP? What you describe is way more expensive then the usual row of cubicles.

Also the reason for the gap at top and bottom is so sick people (who often go to a public loo to rest, then collapse) can be rescued.

But if cost and safety could be solved I still would not want to share a mixed sex toilet because men’s urine reeks much more than female urine, and many men piss all over the seat and floor and don’t bother to wipe it up. At the moment we have disgusting men’s tpilets, and clean women’s toilets. If they become mixed sex then they all become disgusting, I’ve seen this many times in cafe toilets etc.

So really all you’re proposing is the abolition of safe clean toilets for women.

Here you go: www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/transgender-teens-restricted-bathroom-access-sexual-assault/

Also part of my point is that unisex changing rooms in places like Primark need to be better. Floor to ceiling cubicles with proper doors rather than flimsy curtains would be miles better.

There's also a lot of 'ewwww, I don't like smelly men, keep them away' comments which seems childishly sexist.

Someone even commented that men have smellier urine - if that is even true, how can they help that?

Yes they are

www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/transgender-teens-restricted-bathroom-access-sexual-assault/

It's really not clear at all

I thought the poll was asking if people are happy with the current setup, male and female multi cubicle/urinal

Or

A change to more individual toilets

I've obviously misunderstood (and so will others) but are you suggesting that most of the voters are happy sharing with men or more that they are happy using an individual cubicle that men have also used

What risk? Where is your evidence of risk? Where’s the statistics? All I’ve seen is grown adult men crying that their soooo vulnerable with other men (with no evidence), but don’t give a shit about passing that vulnerability on to women by forcing their way into our spaces.

Not women’s problem to solve.

Someone even commented that men have smellier urine - if that is even true, how can they help that?

Some do have smellier urine or body odour. No one is saying that it is something they can prevent but you don’t seem to understand that if we are not forced to use the same toilets as them, it is not a problem. It’s quite simple.

They, in turn, are not subjected to any inadvertent unpleasantness that women’s bodily functions cause.

You’ve linked to an American article. Why would we make changes in our country based on things happening in other places? Or is it just America were meant to mirror?
Where’s your stats for this country about how vulnerable some males are?

No it's not. Men including trans women should stick to male facilities and women stick to female. I will never share with men

Well, okay, so neither is prostate cancer but I'm sure there are plenty of women working on that.

It's society's problem to solve. If you are a woman in a society that raises young boys to be men - which you are - you have a role to play.

Any one of us could have a child that grows up to be trans. I'm sure the shoe would be on the other foot, then.

You have separate bathrooms at home for men and women, then? To avoid 'unpleasantness'? Which is what a toilet is literally for?

Here you go: www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/transgender-teens-restricted-bathroom-access-sexual-assault/

Thanks for sharing. A loosely worded survey carried out in the US with unclear reporting as to where the sexual assaults took place and who by is not good quality evidence that backs your point.

How can you explain the lived experience of the trans people who present female and very safely use the mens toilets?

The perpetrators in almost all sexual assaults are men. The victims in most sexual assaults are women and children. You do not make more than 50% of the population less safe to make 0.1% of the population safer. Address the problem...mens violence! Women are not mens support animals.

If your last point is true, then it also makes the point about men being inherently dangerous - and therfore neeing to be kept away from women - untrue.