Net contributor or Burden on the state?

[Whyareblokesonhere]

Am I being unreasonable to think that the vast majority of us don't believe we are 'burdens' on public money.

I earn reasonable money, around £65k per year, I assumed that would make me a net contributor, after all I seem to be paying tax left right and center, however whilst it's not actually an easy calculation, I realised today that I'm most likely a burden, mostly due to have several children.

Not a big user of anything medical aside from birth but that must skew things significantly. Two car household and household income of around £80k.

So very likely that I'm actually a burden, changes my perspective somewhat.

So AIBU to think most of us assume incorrectly that we are net contributors?

Also interested as to whether you think you are or aren't? Obviously MN is the land of ultra wealthy as we all know so not a scientific study by any stretch!

Totally agree @WinterFoxes. My grandfather was brought back from the brink when he was in his 80s due to agressive medical treatment. He went on to live for another few years in constant pain and struggling for breath. My whole family is in agreement that we don’t want that for us.

Frustrating that you have a well paid job, that you aren't disabled to a level where you cannot work, that you aren't called upon to be a carer for someone meaning you can't work, that you haven't by no fault of your own ended up losing your job, your home etc? You're right, your life sounds so hard. I recommend quitting an getting a job as a TA perhaps or a carer. Then you too can be a burden on the state and live happily ever after.

The top 1% of earners pay 28% of all income tax.
The top 5% of earners pay 48% of all income tax.
37% of UK adults pay no income tax.

Does the 37% include people of pensionable age?

Yes, includes people of pensionable age - pensioners, like anyone else are liable to pay income tax.

You could cost the state money, but give back in other ways. For example, you could raise three children on benefits, but do a superb job. You could raise them to be polite, civilized, and hard-working. You could teach them to treat others with respect, value art and beauty, give something back to society, and so on. If those kids all go on to study physics and engineering and biochemistry at Cambridge, and then stay in the UK, where they work in cutting-edge labs, generating loads of money for the UK economy, etc, you'd be a net contributor.

In fact, even your general conduct matters. So you could be on benefits, never work and produce no children. But, you might be kind and polite to your neighbors, thus helping to raise the general quality of life in your area (albeit in a very small way). Or you might look after your sister's kids every day so she can go and work for an engineering firm that makes and sells stuff to China. You might care for your elderly mother, so she doesn't burden the NHS. Even taking care of your own health contributes to society. A health freak will live longer and get fewer chronic illnesses, and so won't burden the hospitals.

The problem is the large minority who really are a drain. Around 10 to 20% of the population do nothing but harm. They disrupt lessons at school, holding other kids back. They ruin their neighbour's lives, causing them stress and insomnia and affecting their ability to work and raise their own kids. They drift into petty crime or become addicts (or both). Then they produce another generation exactly like themselves, and the whole nightmare continues. And the worst thing of all is that it's always the worst people, the most violent and uncivilized, who have the most kids. No one knows what to do with them. Both the left and the right have utterly failed. Nothing works. Unless you are prepared to stop them having kids, you just have to live with it and pray they never move next door.

7.7 million of the 12.5 million State pensioners in the UK pay income tax - but an additional two million more will pay income tax by April 2026, as tax thresholds are frozen until then. So by April 2026, approximately two-thirds of pensioners will pay some income tax.

JoonT
The problem is the large minority who really are a drain. Around 10 to 20% of the population do nothing but harm.

So true.

Not rtft so apologies if this has already been said, but I don't honestly see how such a complex calculation could be readily done. And how do you decide what counts? Does my NHS (and complicated) birth accrue to my account or my mother's / father's? Or both?Presumably my education counts towards mine. As a civil servant, and therefore paid for from the public purse does my salary count as part of what I get from the state, or can I offset my labour against that? Does it make a difference if I buy the majority of my non-essential purchases overseas so contributing differently to UK coffers? And what about the people who pay cash in hand to tradesmen?

You know nothing about my life. Actually I have a very low income job now though I didn't years ago. I also have a voluntary position at a health company so contribute that way as well. I live very simply, not asking anything from anyone. I have health issues to do with mental health and fatigue but nothing the NHS can help with. I had a scholarship to a private school so the government hasn't even paid for that.

Please don't assume I'm sitting here from the lofty position of a high salary because that's not the truth.

I'm also not convinced by a PPs suggestion that 10-20% of the population do nothing but harm.! No figures to hand, but I would be astonished if it was anything like that high.

If you're on a very low income job then you're not a net contributor. You have access to the NHS and the basic cost of your access even if you don't use it beyond being born. You use bins and roads and pavements, walk though public parks etc. And honestly unless someone is exceptionally wealthy you can't assume your lifetime will even out as a contributor because you have no idea what you'll need tomorrow or in your old age.

So yes. If you're complaining about how unfair it is you don't get to take more from the system rather than say a specific complaint that the NHS won't help you with your health needs, then I'll stick to taking umbrage at your complaints about people like me using up your tax payments

Anything to back up your claim that 1 in to to 1 in 5 people do nothing but cause disruption I n school, ruin their neighbours lives, live off petty or worse crime and then spawn another generation who follow their path? I'd be interested in the research.

Don’t kid yourself. Much of the governments revenue comes from corporation tax etc which then gets distributed through various routes to its citizenry. You have been using the nations assets and infrastructure for years. When you retire you will be even more dependent on the state. (As in, if there was no state, could you survive?).
The same goes for most, if not all, of us.

Interesting thread OP!

I am calculating I am a contributor. Didn't grow up here so never used services including education here. Earn well at 85k. I do have 3 children using most services but also using private medical services.

Would be interesting to consider their output too in this. I am hoping that they will one day contribute a lot and therefore lead to a net contribution overall.

This also ignores the fact that many of us who work and pay taxes are also good citizens, do voluntary work and look after elderly parents etc.

Surely anyone employed in the public sector is a burden, irrespective of their earnings. These state employees are funded by taxation of the private sector

yes, those bastard senior consultants leeching off the state.
You so funny

On about £53K pre-tax and no children yet, so currently a contributor probably.

Contributor, annual household tax bill of over £100k, kids in private school. We've not seen a GP in 12 months. We do drive two cars though as we're quite rural and there is no public transport.

Even with my kids' births and some medical follow up, we have given more than we've taken. But who knows what is round the corner, I'm thankful that we've paid into a system that would be there if we needed it.

We also contribute in other ways, mostly local, with charities, fundraising, local committees etc

Ooh I don't actually know. I earn well (100k approx), don't have kids and lived outside of the UK for several years when I would otherwise have been having education paid for. I received some funding for university but paid off all the loans etc years ago. I haven't received benefits other than a brief period in my 20s and until quite recently owned my own home - I'm now in HA but pay full (albeit subsidised) rent. I have private dental insurance so no cost there. So I'd ordinarily say I'm a net contributor.

HOWEVER - in recent years my health has suffered very badly which has led to a fair few hospital admissions and stays (emergency and routine), regular specialist consultant appointments and various tests. I am also on multiple meds which I do pay for but obviously these are at a subsidised cost. The reality is I have no idea how much all of this has cost so I can't say for sure! If circs were different I'd be paying for private medical insurance but my health issues are now classed as a pre-existing condition so I can't get any insurance to cover these costs.

In positive news my health conditions mean that I am very likely to die before I ever need any state pension or care and kids are off the cards completely, so I think over my lifetime I will come out as a contributor 😝

Contributor, high tax payer, private health, no DC at school, haven’t been eligible for child benefit for years and they didn’t have free 30 hours nursery when my DC were young. No car.

I'm on a very low income now, not always. For decades I contributed hundreds of thousands in income tax and capital gains tax. I pay full council tax to have my bins collected, walk the streets etc. I'm studying but self funded. I am a net contributor.

Some would consider me a burden as a pensioner but I still pay a small amount of income tax, as well as VAT on purchases. I paid tax and NI as a worker for 45 years and get a small private pension that I paid directly for. I have never lived in social housing or claimed benefits, except for Child Benefit. At present I have no health issues placing a burden on the NHS, except for a couple of prescriptions.

I don't think I am a burden but it depends how it is calculated.

I wont know til i die. I contributed a lot before I had children so had some credit, but currently mine and my husbands tax does not cover our childrens education. One has SEN so its considerably more than 7k a year. Onces thats done I might start 'paying back' the debt or I might get cancer and cost even more.