Net contributor or Burden on the state?

[Whyareblokesonhere]

Am I being unreasonable to think that the vast majority of us don't believe we are 'burdens' on public money.

I earn reasonable money, around £65k per year, I assumed that would make me a net contributor, after all I seem to be paying tax left right and center, however whilst it's not actually an easy calculation, I realised today that I'm most likely a burden, mostly due to have several children.

Not a big user of anything medical aside from birth but that must skew things significantly. Two car household and household income of around £80k.

So very likely that I'm actually a burden, changes my perspective somewhat.

So AIBU to think most of us assume incorrectly that we are net contributors?

Also interested as to whether you think you are or aren't? Obviously MN is the land of ultra wealthy as we all know so not a scientific study by any stretch!

Isn’t there a link between strep throat and OCD? I’m sure I read something to that effect a few years ago.

Depends. Arguably having children is (potentially) contributing to future tax bases so some economists might see that as a net benefit within reason.

Don’t feel guilty - it isn’t your fault you were ill 💐

totally agree there is no need to feel guilty, whilst I wouldn't wish illness on anyone this is surely the positive side of our system

Bit frustrating really when I see how much everyone else takes

So sorry that us 'burdens' are having the cheek to use your NHS. Ask the govt nicely, they might give you your own burden free hospital.

I don't think those figures are correct.

It’s is obviously ridiculous. There is no way that with income tax, road tax, VAT, NI and every other form of tax that this would be right.

I agree 100%.

I am a net contributor. I pay well into six figures in income tax every year, have private healthcare for the whole family and my DC are at private school. I have a pathological loathing of the idea of being dependent on anyone - including the state

Don't use roads?
Don't use energy?
Don't use water?
Don't use supermarkets?
Build and service your own car?
Produce your own fuel?

Of course you're dependent on people, hundreds if not thousands of them.

I agree. We need this conversation. Both my parents were hauled back from the brink of death in their seventies , only to limp along for another ten years (dad) at a massive cost to the NHS in constant pain, losing all friends as he could no longer socialise, while my mum has declined into dementia and is now in a care home at 1.5k a week, bored and lonely and confused.

I have made it very clear to DC that if any serious illness befalls me after 70, I don;t want to be cured, just palliative care. It's caring for the elderly boomers into their 90s that has brought the NHS to its knees.

That poster means she's not financially dependent on the state, which is what we're discussing here — finances. She pays for water, she pays for energy, she pays for her supermarket shop etc. She isn't depending on the state or others to pick up the tab.

Ha! I once got called a “Tory moron” on here for pointing out that there were such things as net contributors and net beneficiaries. It was years ago and I’m still sore about it! I’ve never voted Tory in my life, I was just pointing our that higher rate tax payers were paying for their own child benefit (back when there was such a thing for that group).

Anyway, “burden” is obviously a very emotive word, but technically that’s what I am as an individual. As a household, we’re not.

Net contributor, probably. High income, no benefits, kids in private school, private healthcare, although we have been to A&E a few times and have an NHS GP (which we see maybe once a year), and the kids have free NHS dental treatment (so far only used for checkups). 2 x childbirth on the NHS.

Having worked in the public sector - this complicates the calculation. Do you include the incomes of those paid by the state out of taxes? And do you count the taxes of those paid out of taxes?

Or do you look at an expenditure approach and agree that spending contributes to the economy?

I personally believe in the social contract of taxation and would prefer to pay more for better services and a safety net.

I’m not sure where I stand. Higher rate tax payer for over half my working life, no kids, both of which would indicate that I’m a contributor. Never claimed any benefits either. However, I nearly died and had a significant surgery on the NHS so maybe not.

I agree that having kids is determinative in most cases though.

There are ways to contribute to society beyond finances

Would you elaborate? All I can think of is volunteering and if you can volunteer you can work.

The NHS consultant upthread. Nurses on relatively low wages who according to this calculation would be seen as a 'burden' when in fact they are performing an essential service keeping people alive (and working if you want to put it in those terms). People who are supporting their friends and families emotionally. Legions of unpaid carers of disabled people and children. Teachers educating the next generation. I'm just saying you can't put whether someone is a 'burden' in solely financial terms as people contribute to society through the work (often unpaid) they do and the relationships they maintain.

This is far too simplistic to mean anything.

Yup. Ive got a mate who goes on and on about how much she contributes (about 5k a year in tax). She has no clue of the huge extent to which very high earners contribute.

Surely more, why would you want one?

DS earns 30k, I don't work. Two pregnancies but twins so get tax credits for all 3, dla for DS, carers for me, 18 months of hospitalizations and operations for DS and continues medical support altho down to a few hospital visits a year.

Would it help you if I flagellate myself on the alter of state burden? Would it help you if I told my son he's essentially the reason we're such a burden as I worked before him? Perhaps some sort of badge so you know who we are?

But agree with pp, tax contribution is not the only one. Some key workers are hugely underpaid, plenty of private sector workers overpaid.

Because there’s a naive assumption that lower paid people are paid a fair wage.

They absolutely are not. So any questions about burden are bullshit.

I volunteer now four weekends a year. One in March, one in April, one in May, one in October. Also do some online meetings once a month. And some extra work around that mainly over the summer but it's a few hours here and there deadlines but on my timescales. If you can find me a job where I can do those hours and get paid, sign me up!!

I'm definitely not a net contributer, but I don't think of myself as a burden on the state, I work full time and am economically active.