To be appalled that the Bbc are debating the right to strike

[Letshaveablackcelebration22]

The bbc are currently debating, on one of their sickly Sunday morning shows if people have the right to strike.

Anyone in a decent society has the right to withdraw their Labour - might be good to take a look at the countries that don’t have the right to strike. It’s a sign of a democratic society that you can withdraw your labour.

Aibu to think that there shouldn’t even be a debate about the ‘right’ to strike. Of course I would expect nothing less from the fascists in waiting that are the current Tory party though.

Anyone in a decent society has the right to withdraw their Labour

For the majority of people that's making the choice to leave and go to a different job.

Unfortunately this is a sign of how far we've fallen.

I agree with you OP.

Suppression of debate is far worse than having debate in the first place.

@Letshaveablackcelebration22 You seem to believe people have the right to strike but not everyone agrees with you. How do you expect to change other people’s opinion without a discussion?

These discussions were had over a hundred years ago, at the beginning of the labour movement.

The right to strike has been established as a basic workers' right since then.

For the state TV channel to reopen the debate now while the government is passing anti-strike laws is a strong sign that our rights are now under attack.

Do you think we should keep debating the ban on child labour, or the right to be paid overtime as well?

Perhaps reading up on how and why we won these rights first would be more useful than a TV debate on abolishing them.

Suppression of debate is far worse than having debate in the first place.

I dunno, endlessly debating whether climate change is man-made has hindered taking proper action against it for years.

'We need this debate' can be used as a tool to stop action, particularly when it is non-experts wanting to seed doubt in people's minds against expert opinion.

It's why creationists in the US are clamouring to 'teach the debate' about whether the Earth is 6000 years old in science classrooms when the matter is actually pretty clearly settled.

For the state TV channel to reopen the debate now while the government is passing anti-strike laws is a strong sign that our rights are now under attack.

This makes no sense. The BBC is not "reopening the debate"- the government has done so by introducing anti-strike laws. Do you think the BBC should just ignore it?

I don't think the BBC should be hosting a debate over whether we should keep our rights, no.

Spain requires a minimum service on essential services to be provided during a strike (including trains). It’s not an anti worker undemocratic hell hole.

It would be nice if this government could provide a minimum service level in these professions when they are not on strike.

I think a few EU countries do

You'd rather it ignored that our rights are being removed? Honestly can't understand this position.

I would rather there BBC report on what the government is doing.

Not join in and strengthen the narrative with this kind of gaslighting "debate".

I agree with you that the end result should be that people have an absolute right to withdraw their labour. The alternative is what we call slavery, or indentured servitude. I am against these.

I also agree that it's the thin end of the wedge vis a vis totalitarianism, and it's very telling that the government wants to outlaw strikes for useful workers - that is clearly about a frightening level of control.

However, I take it what you're really concerned about is the shift in the Overton Window - and I fear that is the mass media's main job.

there should be no debate in a democratic society

This is one of the most ridiculous and ironically moronic things I've read on mumsnet.

Debate is the cornerstone of democracy. People not being allowed to think differently is exactly what fascism is.

#nodebate just entrenches people in their beliefs. It creates a mantra of us vs them and everyone just doubles down on what they think and refuses to listen to anyone else. Shutting down other people doesn't work. Debate is how we grow and how we convince others who are on the fence or think differently to us of the merits of our arguments.

I'm with you on your actual opinions about strikes. I think it would be absolutely terrible if we lose this right and will fight as hard as I can. But you've gotta fight smart, and debate is part of that. I think it's more than appropriate the bbc debate it so no one can claim to be 'silenced' and the sense of all the different arguments hashed out.

Sorry but I think you need to wake up a bit. Like you, I used to think this sort of debate was settled for good- that everyone bar a few cranks could agree on certain fundamental things- labour rights, abortion rights, equality law and so on- and that even suggesting that they be debated was inappropriate, given that everybody agreed. Lots of people felt like this.

The last decade or so has been a massive wake up call. These questions aren't remotely settled, large numbers of people don't agree. If you support this stuff, you have to keep fighting for it and keep making the arguments, because you can bet your life that there are people making arguments against it, all over the internet.

This all reminds me of Brexit and of Clinton/Trump- people on the left and in the centre clinging to the idea that the right way ahead is so obvious that they don't need to fight for it and can just dismiss people who don't agree as bad actors, and we know how well all that turned out. Refusing to engage in the debate just means we lose the debate.

How funny, someone spouting off about fascism who wants to shut down debate.

@Letshaveablackcelebration22 there should be no debate in a democratic society

Seriously?????

Just taking your fingers out of ears would be a good start

I'd rather like to know exactly what the parameters of the discussion were, since only the OP seems to have seen it. Was it "Is there such a thing as a right to strike?" "Who should have the right to strike?" "Is striking ever justified?" "Which sectors are so vital that their right to strike should be restricted?".

There are a variety of different thresholds across various democratic countries regarding whose rights to strike can be restricted, and I don't think it's inherently fascist to discuss whether the UK's stance is perfect. But I'd agree that "should anyone be allowed to strike at all?" would be a dodgy discussion, prioritising a viewpoint very far from mainstream UK opinion.

The BBC is not debating the right to strike.

A regular Sunday morning programme, that happens to be broadcast on the BBC, is this week discussing the right to strike, which is a completely different thing.

It’s ok to debate topics on TV, as it performs an educational function, and can be a much more calm and nuanced setting out of the arguments on both sides - certainly better than online debates!

It goes without saying that it is of course essential to retain the right to strike in a democracy, but as the Tories and the tabloids are squaring up to the unions, it’s becoming more important to educate the public about the importance of retaining workers rights.

That’s so true.

I think you have misread my post. I don't need to decide if someone is racist, that is not what I am talking about. My point is I do not need to debate endlessly to know that my position is my position.

I think racism is wrong.
I think climate change is real and a threat.
I think the death penalty is wrong.
I think the right to strike is essential in a democracy.

I am not going to waste my life debating my genuinely held beliefs.

They could join a union and encourage their colleagues to do the same.

Police have no right to strike.

And arguably have far more to strike over the way they have been treated, vilified by everyone, salary static for a decade, pension f**ked over, gross misconduct for taking a pencil from work, desk duties for 2 years taking out a crazy moped driver who was on pavements, IOPc investigations at a whim.

What’s good for the goose is good for the gander, so if public services continue to be able to strike - then police should have that right restored.