To wonder why is Mumsnet so anti-car?

[Ticketsto]

There is at least one thread a week on here demonizing cars! What is with all the hate? I know they cause pollution and can kill people however they’ve revolutionized the way we live! Not all of us are fortunate enough to live somewhere with good public transport.

I am not getting angry at people for using cars, I am angry at the government for building cities that mean that cars are the only way of getting around. When there is decent public transport and bike infrastructure, people use it.

Sorry, I wasn't referring you to specifically when I said the bit about getting angry.

But it's always the same on these threads.

Posters come on and leap at anyone who says they rely on their car - apparently anyone who drives daily is lazy and selfish and should have bought a much pricier house somewhere with public transport.

Or, we shouldn't have jobs that require cars or vans as that's selfish too 🙈

They totally ignore the fact that loads of jobs can't be done or accessed without a car and that even if we lived in a public transport utopia, some of us would still need to be in our cars everyday anyway!

I don't think most of mumsnet is like this. There is always a few who cannot understand that some people do not have the choices that they have and that everyone cannot walk, cycle or use public transport ( even when it is available). They are always the same on any environmental topic eg telling parents of disabled teenagers they should be putting enormous cloth nappies on them.

I think most people though do take a reasonable middle ground.

My knowledge of cars is pretty much, big ones, small ones, green ones, blue ones.

I thought the 'issue' with SUVs was that they were big?
I've actually no idea when it comes to cars beyond what will fit the passengers I need in and that I can get cheaply. It would be lovely if I could afford a super eco car but I can't. Eventually the more eco options will filter down to those of us who have to buy second hand, but only if there's demand for them in the top earners bracket.

SUVs are less fuel efficient for their internal size than estates and people carriers.
You also do not need one if you live rurally unless you live down a farm track. The countryside has roads and suitable tyres do the rest.

Ah well mostly farmers around us which I guess is why they are prevalent.

It's the height and width of SUVs that makes them a nuisance. People carriers and estates tend to be long instead.

I'm quite happy for my local farmers to have SUVs. Presumably anything that makes their lives easier means I get food. Can't get worked up about it.
I presume people froth over it when they go to the supermarket themselves.

Again all of the farmers I know will have a practical vehicle like a Land Rover Defender or a Toyota Hilux for actual farming work. The second vehicle in the family will be something small like a VW Golf - the farmer needs to go off-road but the spouse and kids are only going to school. None of them drive a white BMW X3 because those are aimed at the Chelsea market.

Someone driving a white BMW X3 is highly unlikely to be a farmer.

There seem to be a lot round here. Again, I could be wrong because I am not good at recognising cars beyond colour haha. But again, seeing as we are 'proper country' I would imagine they have their uses. We don't live in ops path and road utopia and dirt tracks are the 'roads' to the active farms.

Honestly I don't even know the difference so there's no point splitting hairs. Is a Landrover an suv?

I mean the people I think I know that have SUVs locally are:
Greyhound dog walkers
Wolfhound dog walkers
Farm labourer
Tree surgeon
Fosterer

But I wouldn't trust that because my car knowledge is clearly lacking.

I'm a driver and never feel particularly victimised on Mumsnet, if anything I think it's overwhelmingly pro driver.

I also cycle, and if you want to see an anti-road-user pile on look up some cyclist threads

It's very definitely anti-cycling.

The very idea that it's a viable method of transport for loads of people sends some into an absolute rage. It'll weird!

MN and indeed the UK is anti fitness if it in anyway causes any inconvenience to a car driver or anyone in a park woodland or on a tow path.

So a cyclist ruined my drive to a lakeside cafe/garden centre because he/she slowed me down for 10seconds and they shouldn't be on the road doing their hobby..... and a runner breathed on me and now i have Diphtheria.....

We ve even had threads that have had anti Parkrun rants from posters....

I do wonder whether its jealousy?

Yep - the same goes for all the threads about horse riders daring to be on public roads.

...yep horse riders too..

Yet it never used to be like this.

Most of our parents or grandparents would have used a bicycle and or walked to work....

But the rants from people like Jeremy Clarkson have normalised wanting to run down anyone not in a car... its just a laff ain't it...

My grandparents and yours likely never left their little village. They had likely had the woman at home able to do the shopping each day at the grocers, butchers and provide childcare for numerous children. They would have died at an average age that is much lower than now without ever leaving their villages.

We live in a different world now. Women have full time jobs they need to access, childcare arrangements they need to get to and overpopulation and awareness of danger(not just cars) means children aren't let out the door in the morning and wander around till teatime. Children need experiences and enrichment, which, unless you are very lucky are usually well spaces out and require transport.

My absolute pet hate is people wanging on about the good old days. They really weren't, yes there were upsides but they were mostly allowed to happen due to lax safeguarding and sexist roles.

I don't want to go back there. If you want somewhere where car driving is limited by law try Saudi. You'll love it.

@Whewillmylifebegin
i'm in my 50s, when i was a kid 12000 people worked at Devonport Dockyard, 1000s commuted by bicycle, this was the 70s/80s.... the 1970s and 80s!

Same in all the large workplaces/factories and yes women tended to be more at home but they also had few of the labour saving devices we've got now and worked a darn sight harder too.

Life expectancy? agree but we live longer in poor health now.... lack of exercise one reason...

Not only have our waistlines grown but as you admirable demonstrate.. so has our intolerance.

@Whewillmylifebegin

My grandmothers all worked. Probably their mothers to.

This idea of women staying home was a rather middle class one. Wasn't financially viable for poorer families.

What they did have is walkable neighbourhoods. Many of those were destroyed in the last 40 years or so.

Many also survived though and they've good places to live. In some other countries they're actively rebuilding them, here however, we're still obsessed with cars.

Women may have worked but not in most industries.
Police, banking etc all introduced women fairly recently and painfully slowly.
I aspire to more than taking in ironing.

@Whewillmylifebegin

And it was very middle clarrs

Me Nana could remember when you had to have gone to grammar school to work on the counters in the posh department stores in town.

My point is however, that you can have two parents working without a car if, you have a neighbourhood which is walkable. Add in bikes and good public transport, good provision for the disabled and you're away!

It can be done and is being done.

Plenty of women worked in manufacturing and secretarial work. The former has since been largely exported to China, while the latter has largely been made obsolete by computers (remember when companies had massive typing pools?)

My point is however, that you can have two parents working without a car if, you have a neighbourhood which is walkable. Add in bikes and good public transport, good provision for the disabled and you're away!

Only if those parents are in jobs that can be done on foot or in one place.

Lots of able-bodied people will never be able to walk to work or do their jobs on foot/using public transport, no matter how walkable the neighbourhood or how accessible the public transport.

So only two of those on the list are likely to actually use them off-road. I'd like to bet that in both cases they're proper off-road vehicles fitted with off-road tyres, not white BMW X4s on normal tyres (insert preferred Chelsea tractor).

I've not been to a single place in Europe where public roads aren't paved. The only place where you are likely to encounter a proper muddy track is on a private lane leading to an actual farm. Living in Godalmoaning does not equate to being off-grid in the back of beyond.