To think work no longer ‘pays’

[Cuppasoupmonster]

This is a controversial topic so I’m expecting a few biscuits to be thrown at me so I’ve got my hard hat on. Inspired by the ‘benefits overhaul’ thread.

I often see on here that working and owning your own home is always better than claiming benefits and living in social housing. But it seems like the perks are long gone if I’m honest.

It feels like every day I’m dragging myself up at 6am to take my daughter to nursery (when I would much rather have her at home with me), just to pay our enormous mortgage and bills, before breaking even at the end. We haven’t had a holiday in 5 years. A few months ago I went into my overdraft for the first time in about 6-7 years despite the fact my spending is no different. What are the upsides again? Is it just that we get to choose the care home we die in (perhaps)? Because right now I’m feeling pretty pissed off with the whole thing and wondering if anyone else feels the same.

Myself and dh both work myself part time dh full time . Our disposal JOINT income after bills is about £300 LESS per month than when I was a single parent, part time in receipt of tax credits then UC
I was far far better off on benefits. (not that i chose to be then its was the best i could do in the situation I was in )

Your right, repairs do get done for you at no cost, eventually. Ive been waiting nearly 2 years for a roof survey because i need repairs. Ive spoke with a company myself to get the problem resolved, turns out the council used tiles that are no longer made and the conpanies local cant repair the roof, they would have to replace it which i cant afford even though im a working tennant, then add in i would have to get permission to do it, which could take weeks and i would have to get another company in because i have solar panels which are managed by a third party company, so would have to get them involved. So right now, i have no choice but to let my roof gradually get worse with every day of bad weather until the council get round to me. Wonderful being a council tennant.

Honestly the whole thing about benefits is you don't get to choose!

They are a political tool, dependent upon budgets and political spin and Governments and the electorate.

Do you really want to hand over your control of your future to millions of other people?

People in UK that keep returning a majority Conservative Government?

I'd rather work, struggle with a mortgage, save if possible for the future and have a modicum (even if an illusion) of control.

The nursery years are so tough but it does get easier.

One day you'll pay off your mortgage, you'll have an asset and so what if you have to use that asset to pay for care...it gives you CHOICE.

Always try to work, I bet those who can't would love to, working give you choice.

Sorry forgot to add yes I’ll have to pay council rent forever etc but there are perks. I had 3 kids and when they were little I had 8 years off work. That’s something I’ll never get back. I have a career too as I did an OU degree which enabled me a smooth transition back into a decent job. We have 2 holidays a year, 1 abroad. I gathered if I’m going to be paying rent until I die I may as well try and the live the high life 🤦‍♀️. I am not in debt or over drafts etc.

The bit that jumped out at me was the enormous mortgage! That’s a choice, we could’ve bought a house and borrowed another £100k but we settled with a lower budget as we just weren’t comfortable with an enormous mortgage.

As others have said once the nursery years are over you’ll be much more comfortable.

OP instead of punching down why not think ‘why are my wages so low they’re barely offering me a level of existence above subsistence’ 🤔 I dare say benefits don’t offer a particularly extravagant lifestyle. The working/middle classes are all being screwed in their own ways.

And aside from the material aspects- work offers you social interaction/an identity that’s not available to some single parents or people with disabilities who rely on the benefit system. I’m sure some of them would love to ‘escape’ to work some days.

I think if you remove the bit about benefits and just say there’s not a lot to be gained from working you’re probably correct.
It seems a large proportion of the population are under employed and judging by a thread on MN I read earlier he’ll would have to freeze over before many over 50s went back to work.
I think it’s a combination of things

1. many people have reached peak stuff
2. people are valuing time/experiences etc more than possessions
3. for many home ownership is out of reach, so far out of reach there’s no point in going for it. May as well have an easier less stressful life.

Why don’t you sell your house and rent instead then? If you don’t want to own a house and don’t see the benefit to owning a house then just sell up and rent. Why not?

@Cuppasoupmonster I can totally relate because we both probably pay a fucking ridiculous amount for nursery. If you didn't pay that you'd have so much more extra money at the end of the month to actually enjoy life a little bit xxx

Are you dense? Okay here is an example. I own my own home. Something terrible happens, I am attacked my an axe weirding maniac and can no longer work, my husband drops down dead, I need to pay for my sisters hamsters chemotherapy. Oh look, I have a big house I can sell that likely since the time I bought it has increased in value, hooray all is not lost! Suppose I had been paying rent for years instead. Well I’d be fucked wouldn’t I. I’ve also been working and paying into a pension so when I retire I will be living off more than a pittance. My husband also works so if he did drop down dead I would get a lovely death grant. There are SO MANY reasons why working pays. And I don’t believe that you don’t know this.

It gets more complex when you think about it in terms of disability and working. While in theory you can claim PIP and work, in reality you generally can't.

On saying that, I'd rather work full time with bipolar (despite it often being difficult) than have too much free time to dwell on my symptoms.

I also like my job pretty often. I have some horrible weeks where it's non-stop stress, but I honestly don't know what I'd do with the free time. Any time I've had a break I've struggled without routine.

I have no idea what the future holds in terms of the economy, housing and so on. I just keep showing up to work and focusing on day to day stuff. I resent paying so much tax, but have to hope it's being spent on good things like NHS and schools etc.

Do you really want to hand over your control of your future to millions of other people?

We have anyway! Posters on here seem to think working people have all this choice and freedom that benefit claimants or social housing tenants don’t have. But I can’t:

1. Choose where I live. All the areas I want to live in (not even ‘posh’ just average) are too expensive
2. Make these instant repairs to my house that everyone seems to think I can. They’re staggeringly expensive, take time to save up for and book in
3. Spend more than 2 days a week with my tiny daughter - its nursery, nursery and more nursery the rest of the time
4. Have any holidays or treats because we are just so skint

A poster on another thread who claims benefits and doesn’t work was trying to convince me her life was hard due to cost of living because she ‘is having to cut down on holidays’. I haven’t had one in 5 years and that was in the U.K. 😆

I’m not in the UK, and nurseries are basically free here so that both parents can work.
Are you saying you can actually choose not to work and automatically get benefits? If you’re well able to work? In that case, sorry but what a shit system..

For a huge bracket of incomes you aren’t wrong.
I don’t we really surprised by the level of benefits, rent and payment towards childcare people were getting on a recent thread

Benefits for single people or single dads who don’t have their kids full time are really low but they really aren’t that low for single mums on the whole.

Pensions will be a pittance regardless and when so many posters on here don’t believe pensioners should be penalised for not working and ‘have the same standard of life and care that the others do’ then where is the incentive?

As for the rest of it, if you sell your home to pay for a hamster’s chemo, then where do you live?!

Also let's say you are now 45. You've had a mortgage for 5 years already. You've got 20 years to go. So no housing costs in 20 years woohoo

Versus renting. You keep paying rent until you die when you are 75 so you've got to find around/at least £600 per month for the next 30 years... where's that money going to come from when you retire?

Don't you think it's better to have no housing costs and an asset on retirement?

I'm last reading about people struggling and worrying about housing costs in retirement.

Also I do think work is a bit shit these days. More stress, less rewarding. Even the stereotypical rewarding careers are fucking awful now. Nursing, teaching etc. A lot of people are unhappy at work.

TBH, there are ways that you are better off, many really.
DH leaves the house at 5:45am, sometimes doesn't return until 10pm, works 6/7 days a week at the moment. The leave time would stay the same, but he would usually be home by 7 if he wasn't making up for me being off work because of maternity...
When at work, I work the same hours.

We still cannot afford to own a home.

That is the biggest thing that separates you from being a UC claimant.

You can choose where you live now, you can choose where your child goes to school, you do not fear being moved on every six months, you do not live in a house that you are not allowed to decorate which many UC claimants are in the position of with private landlords.
I assume you can get finance if you require it, most UC claimants wouldn't be able to.

I think its a crying shame that the living conditions in this country are what they are at the moment. It shouldn't be this way, however, I don't think that this is benefit claimants fault. The country is just fuxked ag the minute.

I hope things improve. I remember leaving thr house before 6am to get DD sorted for the day for me to go to work, then come home to no real pay off. Its soul destroying.

When DD is no longer in nursery, it'll become easier, but it still won't be easy. It's like treading water.

My pension is great actually

Posters on here seem to think working people have all this choice and freedom that benefit claimants or social housing tenants don’t have.

The majority of benefit claimants also work. Social housing also isn’t just for the unemployed.

And again, if you don’t want to own a house, why not sell up?

Trust me you have a LOT more choice than those who depend upon benefits AND you are building a future with the likelihood of an asset and a pension.

But you dont. My DN was retired in social housing and she had her rent paid for her. So no you don't pay until 75 or whatever.
I remember she paid 1.12 for her insurance with the council.
This was 2 years ago so not ages

Or die before you reach retirement age from overworking to pay your mortgage...

@RomeoOscarXrayIndigoEcho if I ended up renting at 75 I would get housing benefit 🤷🏼‍♀️

Yes, but that is at a political whim and could so easily be taken away.