To think work no longer ‘pays’

[Cuppasoupmonster]

This is a controversial topic so I’m expecting a few biscuits to be thrown at me so I’ve got my hard hat on. Inspired by the ‘benefits overhaul’ thread.

I often see on here that working and owning your own home is always better than claiming benefits and living in social housing. But it seems like the perks are long gone if I’m honest.

It feels like every day I’m dragging myself up at 6am to take my daughter to nursery (when I would much rather have her at home with me), just to pay our enormous mortgage and bills, before breaking even at the end. We haven’t had a holiday in 5 years. A few months ago I went into my overdraft for the first time in about 6-7 years despite the fact my spending is no different. What are the upsides again? Is it just that we get to choose the care home we die in (perhaps)? Because right now I’m feeling pretty pissed off with the whole thing and wondering if anyone else feels the same.

Single person amount on UC is about £330 per month. Work definitely pays!

This.

Would you actually like to live on benefits? Or is what you mean that you’d like your current lifestyle without having to work?

If you've a mortgage, you're paying that and paying for repairs. Don't really see your point!

I get it, I'm in a similar boat and life is a slog at the moment, and yes it could be worse we could be renting which is fucking terrifyingly precarious and a massive waste of money. But I think we all and I mean the working and middle class really need to knock our heads together because the rich are squeezing every bloody last penny out of our labour to prop up the monied classes.

There is so much automation now and with women joining the workforce full time in the past few decades we ALL should be having a 4 day week by now with decent salaries. There needs to be rent caps and possibly house price caps (although maybe the former will address the latter) and definitely loads more social housing.

Housing should not be a gold brick commodity and it's disgusting how house prices has outstripped wages (I say this as a homeowner)

I hear you OP.

One of my work colleagues was given a brand new 3 bed housing association house, on one of the estates that pop up everywhere- she doesn't work, he is on low income, 2 DC just like me.

DH & myself could not afford the mortgage/ a house on of similar size on that estate. We pay a mortgage on a 3 bed semi, except the 3rd bedroom is a box room.

The only upside is, that in years to come we won't be forced to move- unless our humble home becomes unaffordable...

Ive been on both sides, in 2011 both me and dh were working full time, own home 2 children 1st one from a previous relationship, savings in the bank etc, we decided on another child, got pregnant, all was going well, in Jan 2012 DH got made redundant, I had a stroke 2 weeks after birth of 3rd child. We struggled through till 2013 using all our savings me going back work and dh trying get a job, then admitted defeat, we lost our home and went into council housing. We were on tax credits for years, no holidays, treats or savings. Things now are only starting to get better even though we are still paying back the shortfall from our mortgage. The grass isn't greener and it pisses me off when people bang on about being better off on benefits. Why don't you give up your jobs for a few years and tell me it's better.

If you've a mortgage, you're paying that and paying for repairs. Don't really see your point!

A mortgage decreases over the term of 25 years until it's paid off. Rent goes up. And the point of paying for repairs when you have a mortgage is that ultimately it's for your benefit because you are improving and maintaining your asset, not a landlord's.

@Ylvamoon

Not sure why your friends would be forced to move? You get a lifetime tenancy with housing associations. Most of them scrapped the flex 5 year ones. I have a similar house and I won’t be giving it up.

It's housing and childcare that are the problem. Far too expensive. If you're on benefits you don't often have to worry about either of these.
I don't work because it doesn't pay. I earned far less than childcare would cost. Wouldn't want to be on benefits either though (we get zilch, DH makes too much). We scrape by after our mortgage and bills so I really feel for working households on less than us. But at least for us it's short lived, once DC are at school I will go back to work and we should have wiggle room again. If we were on benefits we'd never have any wiggle room.

Soething switched in the UK. We used to have a system where those who worked very hard and had paid NI got at least a year of a fairly high unemployment benefit whilst they found a new job and those who never did a day's work in their life got a pretty low supplementary benefit. This is similar to the system in much of Europe.

That changed as housing benefit got higher and benefits higher and now we reach a position where if you work for 35 years full time you get a station pensino of about £10k a year when you reach about 68 and you pay tax on that; whereas if you never did a day's work in your life when you get to that age you can have all your rent paid and UC.

We seem to reward the skivers and penalise the strivers in the UK.
We need workfare in return for benefits even for those with babies.

You chose to be house rich and cash poor. And now you’re on here blaming those worse off than you for your own bad financial decisions. You didn’t have to buy a house you couldn’t afford the mortgage and maintenance on.

If the mortgage is such a millstone around your neck, sell up and rent privately. I think you’ll have your bubble burst in terms of having repairs done for you at no cost! 🤣 It’s like you have no idea that 25% of private rented homes do not even meet the minimum standards to be safe for human habitation…and nothing is being done about it.

I don’t think you’re envious of renters or benefit claimants en masse. I think your envious of people that have snagged social housing in lovely areas and all the benefits that affords them.

I can understand your feelings. I suspect many feel the same. I still remember the absolute fury of my father when the council tenant who lived next door was able during the Thatcher era to buy his home for a couple of quid while my father struggled to pay the enormous mortgage of the equivalent house he had bought. Thems the breaks. Life isn’t fair.

It’s also not easy to move at the moment and purchase a house in an area you fancy. We’ve tried and we are stuck in our house currently with no ability to find a proceedable house. The housing market is still so difficult. Not much coming up, people clamouring to bid over and above for anything decent. I honestly think we’d have more luck if we were renting.

I think you need to view this as a phase. A crap one but a time you’ll look back on in the future and be proud of yourself for the resilience to deal with it and keep on going any way .

This is true. I know many hard working people who live in social/council/privately rented housing.

A bunch of us started a new job when our kids were similar ages.
Out of all of us, I was the only one working full time. The others worked the minimum 15h a week, had benefits. And it did make me wonder if I’m not being stupid, I could have had a better income if I worked less.
Fast forward 15-20 years, all our children are now grown ups.
The difference is in my pension pot and savings and equity. They have none. Moreover, when the children turned 18, their income drastically dropped, they lost most benefits. All the kids still lived at home for a year or two, in their case they still do. Their salaries are £20,000 less than mine, I was able to shoulder expenses they simply can’t afford to.

When the kids were little, I had £1,000 nursery fees, a month. My colleagues were receiving that in benefits. But if I needed money for a new washing machine, I could do a shift or two and pay for it. They couldn’t, because they would go over the threshold and their benefits would be reduced/stopped. Some have been renting. I can’t tell you how many times we did decorating parties and moving parties, the ones who rented (most of them) moved every 2 years. They simply cannot get on the property ladder, it’s simply not affordable. And the rent keeps going up and up.
Those who were in housing association are now frantically trying to downsize due to costs, move closer to work/town/waiting for years for repairs/living in quite bad conditions/living next to the neighbours from hell and not a chance to move. I remember one colleague saying to me her HA rent was less than my mortgage interest. My mortgage is nearly paid off. I can sell and move, and supplement my pension/income with the difference.

The difference in pension is pretty big, too.

Yep. My mum gets up at 4am for work and she is in a council house.

Serious question op….

What is stopping you?

No reason why you can’t give up your job, sell your house and apply for benefits if you think you’d be better off.

Are you going to do that then?

We own our house. I work 6 days per week in a minimum wage job (was 4 days before the cost of living crisis). My Dh is self employed, and is working more than ever so we can make ends meet. I’m a bit pissed off that we are working more for less, but so thankful that we CAN work, and can provide for our children. I certainly wouldn’t want to be reliant on the benefits system by choice.

Most people are feeling the squeeze op. Working people and people who can’t work for one reason or another.

My £35k salary, after tax, doesn't even cover the cost of 3 days nursery for my 2 kids (inner London). Making a loss every month, living off savings. I'm hoping it is beneficial for my career in the long run but idk. I have 2 Bachelor's degrees, a Master's and a PhD, so education doesn't seem to pay off either.

Average mortgage term for first time buyers is 30 years now. When you combine that with the ever increased age of first time buyers, the whole "you'll own your house at the end" thing looks less and less of appealing

I didn’t know that. One of my parents claim but they are disabled. They live on about £800 a month which after bills isn’t a lot nowadays due to gas and electric.

Life IS a slog and always has been apart from for the lucky few. Not sure when anyone announced differently. Working vs living on benefits might be a different slog, but working at least gives you more choices and a better pension potentially. And more self esteem, more interaction with the outside world, more opportunities. And as pps said, nursery fees don't go on forever. I've done my family tree for years and have many ancestors who lived with 6 or more kids in a 2 bed house with 2 working adults. How the fuck they coped, I don't know, but its not a new thing. Maybe we grew up with idea that by now it would be all flying cars and a 3 day week as robots would do everything.

You don’t pay income tax on £10k a year, a pensioner on the state pension can also claim
some universal credit.

I’m yet to be penalised for being a striver.

You are measuring quality of life purely by the money that moves through your bank account. Better off is rarely being a single parent, in social housing, reliant on benefits.

There will soon be the expectation that people save or prepare for the future.

And you don't think that is desirable? Surely we all have to prepare for getting old.

Whether you own your home outright or not, it's still a realisable asset that will put tens of thousands of pounds in your pocket, should you choose to sell it. Rent is money that's spent with no prospect of return.

It's housing and childcare that are the problem. Far too expensive. If you're on benefits you don't often have to worry about either of these.

Of course people on benefits still have to worry about housing.