To think work no longer ‘pays’

[Cuppasoupmonster]

This is a controversial topic so I’m expecting a few biscuits to be thrown at me so I’ve got my hard hat on. Inspired by the ‘benefits overhaul’ thread.

I often see on here that working and owning your own home is always better than claiming benefits and living in social housing. But it seems like the perks are long gone if I’m honest.

It feels like every day I’m dragging myself up at 6am to take my daughter to nursery (when I would much rather have her at home with me), just to pay our enormous mortgage and bills, before breaking even at the end. We haven’t had a holiday in 5 years. A few months ago I went into my overdraft for the first time in about 6-7 years despite the fact my spending is no different. What are the upsides again? Is it just that we get to choose the care home we die in (perhaps)? Because right now I’m feeling pretty pissed off with the whole thing and wondering if anyone else feels the same.

What is ‘vile’ that I’ve said, can you say specifically? Or is anything other than BeNEFITs aRe a PiTTaNCE ‘vile’ now?

@Cuppasoupmonster I think a lot of people that see your regular posts will find your attitude vile, not just that PP.

And I said maybe if we paid people a wage they could live on, dealt with the costs of housing and childcare and legislated against ZHC you might have a point. But you just want to benefit bash instead of laying the responsibility where it belongs - with the government.

I find talk of ‘free handouts’ and ‘sponging off the state’ pretty vile.

@Cuppasoupmonster Incidentally, does your child have a free nursery place, and if so, who do you think pays for it? Or do you think you don't take out the system at all?

Why are you so incredibly rude to another human being??

OP is just one “husband dalliance” away from putting in a claim.

Not sure if you’ve ever used the NHS OP (probably not as you make no demands on the public purse) - but it may surprise you to learn hospitals are open 24/7 and childcare isn’t. A&E docs don’t get to say “yeh Monday to Friday 9-5 please”.

It's very commonly known that those who are in the middle,as such,struggle the hardest.
not entitled to much in uc,working all hours but never qualifying for extra help.
no free dentists or legal aid no free school lunches.
and talking about care homes,your hard worked for home is sold to pay for your care whilst you share the exact same facilities with someone getting it all for free.
no wonder there is so much frustration and resentment.

So why don’t those on UC all do ‘voluntary’ things to keep up those soft skills? Maybe that should be a requisite of claiming. It would be good for them, right? Or do those benefits only apply to paid employment?

Just how many volunteer roles do you think there are compared to the number of UC claimants? according to gov.uk the number of claimants currently stands at 5.6 million.

I get where you're coming from, all be it expressed in a kind of narrow minded and pity party way, there's so many outside influences that are overlooked or wilfully ignored at play.

I do now and have always worked full time, still needed tax credits to make ends meet - why? Because my child's father (who stated several times that he'd never be like 'that') paid the grand total of fuck all, never mind 50%, and was sanctioned by society and the powers that be to just do it, and have the thousands he owed written off.
I paid 50% and more from earned wages to bring her up, tax credits (or you and I, the tax payer if you prefer) paid the shortfall.
Somehow though I'm the problem, the one earning a ft wage and bringing up the child, and he's amazing for looking after his own kid once a fortnight, where to my mind, he's the issue, he's the one that's doing the scrounging here, I'm paying my share.

Sort that out properly and you've already reduced the welfare bill - I don't understand why it's not more of a priority considering the way people apparently feel about 'free' money, he's getting his share paid and he's a bloody hero for it.

I don't own my own home to be able to sell and pay for any care I'll need - why? Because I've worked in social care and didn't earn enough to save for a deposit and due to paying private rent until I qualified for social housing (due to my situation getting worse).
We need people to work in social care and if we've got a system that pays people the least that is legal for doing it, while charging a fortune to the person in receipt of the care and the middle man keeping the difference, the pay offs are elsewhere, like qualifying for free social care when needed, free prescriptions so they can get well when they inconveniently show they're human and get sick and go back to work, or social housing so they're not living under a bridge somewhere because they can't afford private rent or save for a deposit.
The employer is paying less and the tax payer is filling in the gaps. Pretty much in the same way they are with absent parents and tax credits/UC.

Just because I don't have my own home doesn't mean I've not and am not, facing many of the issues those with a mortgage do, the difference is you chose to do that, for me it was the only option - and now you're shouting about how unfair it all is to the likes of me, because you don't like the downside to your own choices.

I don't much like the downsides to my circumstances, the difference is that I don't have the freedom to make another choice, you do.

If you make people do voluntary work in return for benefits then it isn't voluntary. It's a paid role. Which needs to be paid at NMW or above.

FWIW I do quite a lot of voluntary stuff in my community and claim UC. The reason being that if my MH is too bad that day I can let someone know and they can take over. This is happening less and less and I'm planning to look for paid work soon. I'll still need UC though.

If you make people do voluntary work in return for benefits then it isn't voluntary. It's a paid role

Also fundamentally misunderstands the meaning of 'voluntary.' That is, you are doing it out of personal choice.

What "volunteer" roles do you suggest? Let me guess..street cleaning? childcare? help out a care homes? any other jobs that people are currently paid to do? What do you suppose would happen to those who are employed to do those jobs, if those not in work have to "volunteer" to do these jobs in order to receive their benefits? The answer is very simple so it shouldn't take you long to work it out.

But you are getting ‘handouts’ in the form of child benefit and all the free services you and your children are entitled to use as a result of being a citizen in the UK. Is that inconvenient enough for your argument

@Eyerollcentral what about those who aren't eligible for child benefit, have private medical insurance and use public schools? This is not uncommon in our friendship circle (all graduates, most sensible and only had one child). It hard to stomach someone saying ohh but I can't leave my little Princess to go out to work, you need to pay for me when your looking at a 5am start tomorrow! Work shouldn't be an option even those claiming benefits should be forced to do something to get the income, we've been for a country walk today and the wind means it desperately needs litter picking so there one job which will save the farmer.

@Grumpybutfunny if you can afford private healthcare and schooling but still want people less well off than you to litter pick for nothing then you are part of the problem. You're wealthy but you still begrudge those poorer than you their pittance? Be ashamed.

we've been for a country walk today and the wind means it desperately needs litter picking so there one job which will save the farmer.

Well you could take a bag with you next time and pick up the litter yourself ...or is that just something the "poor" people should do?

Work shouldn't be an option even those claiming benefits should be forced to do something to get the income

Are youn including maternity allowance in that? pensions? and there's the little matter that if you work for it, then it's not a 'benefit' is it? it's a job.

What? they have private healthcare and send their offspring to public schools! litter picking is what poor people should do.

That’s not the OP though and she is the one on shouting at any one in receipt of benefits. You are deeply delusional if you think people are saying I can’t go out to work because I can’t leave my baby. They are saying I can’t afford to pay childcare and work because the job is minimum wage and would consume my whole wage.
Forced? Unreal. I wish someone would force you and your circle to survive on benefits for a week. You wouldn’t get past day two. Why should the farmer benefit from slave labour? Hard to stomach but that is what you are advocating in the 21st century

We will be out as an estate with the farmer once the weather turns to litter pick, so it's not something everyone else won't be doing. Benefits aren't pittance either! Benefits are meant to be the minimum standard so a room in a shared house, basic food and enough free time to look for paid employment. They are not an opportunity to make sure you are home for the school run etc. When DS was really little we worked opposite shifts with one weekend off together every 8 weeks so we didn't have a massive childcare bill and could establish ourselves in our careers. DS doesn't remember a minute of it and it's put us in a good position.

Just to add we are anything but wealthy, I wish, if we were wealthy I wouldn't be setting a 4:30 alarm!

ZHC jobs are not those aimed at working families, we have some ZHC at work they are all taken by young adults looking for work around college/university or woman wanting to earn pocket money. My MIL works a zero hour contract now she semi retired to pay for holidays etc.

Benefits are meant to be the minimum standard so a room in a shared house, basic food and enough free time to look for paid employment

I swear some people would love it if workhouses were re-opened. Any chance of an answer to my question about what benefits this would apply to?

good luck with selling your home and moving straight into social housing.

Benefits are meant to be the minimum standard so a room in a shared house, basic food and enough free time to look for paid employment.

And how does that work for a family who have fallen on hard times through redundancy, illness or injury? All of that is aside from the fact that you are basically proposing that people who do not work should not have any of life's small pleasures, which is heartless and immoral.

ZHC jobs are not those aimed at working families,

Really? Maybe you should tell the government that. They seem quite happy for people of all kinds to be forced into them or be sanctioned.

And yes, you are wealthy. You can afford private education for your children and private healthcare for yourself. Lots of people who earn NMW also get up at stupid o'clock in the morning and work long hours, you're not special.

I would love that poster to explain how 'oh you're on benefits, BTW you're moving into a shared house on minimum rations until you get a job' is going to be enforced. Like I said, some people would just love the re-introduction of workhouses.