To think work no longer ‘pays’

[Cuppasoupmonster]

This is a controversial topic so I’m expecting a few biscuits to be thrown at me so I’ve got my hard hat on. Inspired by the ‘benefits overhaul’ thread.

I often see on here that working and owning your own home is always better than claiming benefits and living in social housing. But it seems like the perks are long gone if I’m honest.

It feels like every day I’m dragging myself up at 6am to take my daughter to nursery (when I would much rather have her at home with me), just to pay our enormous mortgage and bills, before breaking even at the end. We haven’t had a holiday in 5 years. A few months ago I went into my overdraft for the first time in about 6-7 years despite the fact my spending is no different. What are the upsides again? Is it just that we get to choose the care home we die in (perhaps)? Because right now I’m feeling pretty pissed off with the whole thing and wondering if anyone else feels the same.

@BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn your poor friend has really been through the mill and she has my deepest sympathies. However there is no “charge” on unused space.

I’m in a 3-bed council and my rent is £92/week. It is £92 whether all 3 of us are here or whether I’m alone. I will not be charged “extra” when they leave home.

I would. I can easily live on that (but I’m in the v lucky position of no mortgage) But I can’t because I’ve saved & done without for many years. So no help for me. Doesn’t pay to be fugal.

Single parent with one child calculation. Where I live local housing allowance for a 2 bedroom property is £897.52/month, cheapest 2 bedroom place on rightmove within 10 miles currently £1000/month (£1300 within 3 miles). Pretty much no social housing unless you wait in temporary accommodation for years. Further away is mildly cheaper but the local housing allowance is lower in that area so nothing saved, add the moving costs, new school, new uniform, ect. if there's even a school place available there...

Universal credit amount: £1477.01

rent: 1000
council tax: 56

Leaves £421.01 for bills, food, etc.

For that you must spent 35 hours a week job searching and prove it or face sanction. Attend regular meetings at the job centre that cannot be rearranged without being sanctioned. Answer questions on your journal within a few hours or face sanction.

You can also be evicted from your rental property for no reason at all after the initial contract length, usually 1 year. Then out of all your riches you have to pay moving costs, agency fees, deposit and first months rent all up front. Last time I moved I had paid out almost £5500 before my housing element was updated, despite the only thing changing being the address. I also had to pay to have the carpets cleaned and the kitchen and bathroom deep cleaned as per my tenancy agreement, while also fighting to get my deposit and rent over payment back, and the over payment from the utility companies who always claim there's a cheque in the post. Life of Riley, right? Being poor is extremely expensive.

You are right but shhh, you must not offend. Everybody deserve a good quality of life whether they work for it or not.

OP just try and think to the future when your DC are teens and think you are a sad middle aged woman with no life. Honestly better to have a job for this reason alone. If you can’t think ahead then I’d add that hanging out with a toddler and a baby all day every day is very boring.

Also FYI equities and property increase in value over time - they are not depreciating assets

And this is a Labour voter.

So glad i wont be voting for them anymore due to them calling for longer harsher lockdowns.

OP go for the social housing And see how they treat you.

From another thread.

JenniferBooth · 09/01/2023 14:27
Its about time that social housing and their contractors move into the 2020s Friend of mine has had a letter saying he has to have a new intercom fitted. Apparently this will happen over the course of two days this week. No time or date given. Just 11th to 12th Jan. And Mears have written to him saying he HAS to be in for an inspection next week on a certain day. So what happens if a tenant has a medical appointment or like his neighbour works for the NHS. Back in 2019 when we had new fire doors fitted we got a letter saying we had to be in Mon to Fri. An ALL WEEK call. I shit you not. Its obvious they dont want to make proper appointments and just want to go house to house flat to flat on the day FFS

Maverickess · 09/01/2023 19:09

This pisses me off, like even they think that social housing tenants must just sit at home all day. I have this every time for gas/electric inspections or anything else they need entry for, they send me an appointment (sometimes, sometimes they just arrive and then send me a nice letter saying I'm putting my tenancy at risk by refusing entry for an appointment I didn't even know I had) and it's invariably for less than a week's time, when I need to give a months notice for requesting a certain day off, and then get shitty when if I manage to get through on the phone to change it and say I need a months notice to arrange a specific day off.
Want your rent? Then I need to go to work and abide by my employers policies so I get paid. It happens every bloody year these inspections and I know roughly when it's due (the month) and have even rang before the random call ins and threats for missing appointments - to be told I have to wait until they contact me with a date and then change it.
Tbf I've had this with private LL's too though.

@JenniferBooth OP says they are a Labour voter... Big difference.

Yep........shy Tory

Actually quite hard to find work with guaranteed hours, particularly if you don't have qualifications. And to source all the childcare within a month of starting. Probably as challenging as for someone earning £26k to find a job paying £35k.
I support young working people and pay and conditions in entry level jobs is very poor. You are expected to be always available but not guaranteed the income.

My minimal amount of UC (we own our home) doesn't affect you though. I wouldn't begrudge someone that when work should pay higher wages and cheaper childcare.

The charge is not an increase in the rent - it's a penalty on your housing benefit.

From Shelter: "The bedroom tax reduces the amount of your rent that can be paid by universal credit or housing benefit. The maximum rent that can be covered is reduced by: 14% for 1 spare bedroom 25% for 2 or more spare bedrooms"

Speak for yourself, I have 2 adult children and they never thought of me as a sad middle aged women with no life during the years I wasn't working

I guess that all depends on how you raise them though

It’s great you’ll be getting your child benefit back out of all those contributions, your free NHS maternity and ante natal care, your free dental treatment, your children’s free dental treatment, your children’s free education… it’s truly a great system that you are able to get so much more out of the system than you contributed to it isn’t it. Almost like free hand outs for you and your kids 🧐

Hahah this is too funny now. How many benefits claims do you think you’re paying on the tax from your what was it, 26k wage? Jump down off that high horse before you have a nasty fall.

But it’s not a tax. The rent value is the rent value. If your friend is struggling then she might approach the council for a discretionary housing payment to make up the difference.

What it’s not is a bumping if of rent, change of rent, extra charge or tax.

you are looking at it the wrong way!
you are a cog in the machine and your job is to work so that the people at the top can be wealthy!
your reward is seeing the wealthy & important people in thier mansions and yachts etc, surely you get a thrill from Bezos & his rocket??

yep. She’s probably not a net contributor what with the NHS costs for pregnancy/maternity and child benefit she’s had.

The OP has shown no insight at all, presuming that that the people getting benefits have never been net contributors and ignoring the fact that on her own wage and family circumstances that she will have taken out more than she's ever put in.

Its embarrassing really.

What a hateful thread this is. So depressing to see the vote % too. I agree with @Soothsayer1 . OP you are making enemies with the wrong group of people!

more than she ever put it?!
she made and raised a new human, just because you don't get paid for something doesn't mean it doesn't contribute to human society!
Surely that was one of the big lessons from the pandemic, the people who contribute the most (in terms of time & effort) are often the ones who get paid the least and pay the highest price in the form of wear & tear to thier minds & bodies!
children are educated for free not out of the kindness of the govt, it's so that businesses & services can be staffed so that the people who own & control them can become wealthy
ditto healthcare

We need to move wages higher by withdrawing benefits form those in work and not allowing the 1m a year immigration (500k net immigration) to continue so that the subsidy the state (ie we tax payers) pay big employers to keep salaries low by topping up workers with benefits goes.

According to the OP that’s exactly what it means

It’s the OP who has reduced the scope of the argument to finances alone though. Of course people contribute to society in a multitude of ways beyond paying taxes - maybe even some of “enviable” benefit layabouts do lots of volunteering - but in a conversation where OP has discounted things like mental health, dignity and having control over your circumstances as insignificant, then I think pointing our that they’re a net beneficiary and not a contributor is fair enough.

@Soothsayer1 Does that mean those who produce new humans that are a drain on society have to pay all of that back? No it doesn’t. Not all kids turn out to be even useful adults, some are actually a hindrance. We fund them all the same.

Which is why OP’s posts are so misguided, because she seems to think that she’s paying for everyone else’s UC but doesn’t think that anyone else is paying for her kids.