Civil servants - will you be striking on 1st Feb?

[Iamnotausername]

I know you probably can't say what dept you are in but will you be striking?

I will.

but I know that in my career the private sector pays 30-40% more (not inc. the pension, which is of course an important part of the equation). I know that from my experience in the private sector, not wild guesswork.

How many of those jobs are actually out there though? Presumably there aren't sufficient vacancies to accommodate all public sector workers currently employed in that role, so ultimately it's down to the competition.

Great idea! Everyone who doesn’t get a 13% pay rise immediately should strike. Everyone. Care workers. Supermarket workers. The food industry. Farmers. Distribution workers. The emergency services. What nonsense.

Bonus points for ‘race to the bottom’. Only ever used seriously by people who are in a more advantageous position than they want to admit to, and don’t like having it pointed out.

In my career? Loads. I regularly get approached by my old employer.

There's a skills shortage in the UK and people with specialist skills are hugely in demand.

In my career? Loads. I regularly get approached by my old employer.

Well in that case you got to wonder why they don't all leave then? What's holding people back?

Don't get me wrong, I choose to stay in my job because I enjoy it. But when people post "I don't believe CS workers can earn more in the private sector", I know that in many specialist areas they are wrong.

I acknowledge for people with more generic skills, without specialist qualifications, the picture might be very different though.

They are leaving. We (like the rest of the public sector) have a lot of vacancies for my skillet, and other specialist areas.

Nurses are leaving too. And doctors. It's been in the news quite a lot.

Don't get me wrong, I choose to stay in my job because I enjoy it. But when people post "I don't believe CS workers can earn more in the private sector", I know that in many specialist areas they are wrong.

But equally if there are loads of vacancies in the private sector, that aren't being taken up, there must be a reason for that.

If they leave, they're voting with their feet and the government will have to deal with that. Fair enough.

There is a massive skills shortage in the UK - mainly specialist skills, jobs that require specific qualifications.

Lots of people are leaving the public sector because the private sector is bidding higher for their skills. But with the acute shortage, the private sector also can't fill all roles.

That is certainly the picture in my industry anyway. Brexit will certainly have played a part, along with the 'Great Resignation'.

Most people, by definition, do not work in ‘specialist areas’. So your single example doesn’t make your statement (about + 30-40%) true.

@TheKeatingFive asks the best question.

Genuinely, I haven't known a time like this in my career before - this is a worker's market like I've never seen.

I appreciate this will be very specialism and industry dependent though.

I did caveat it by saying it wouldn't apply to all areas. I totally acknowledge that.

But a blanket disbelief that civil servants could get more elsewhere is equally wrong. As always, it's a varied picture. It will also differ by region - many regions do not have good private sector options, although WFH has shifted that a bit recently.

Given the inevitable coming recession, it will be interesting to see how the power in the labour market shifts.

Right now we have high employment and a huge skills shortage. Skilled workers are in high demand. But if large businesses start to fold and make redundancies, that could change very quickly.

One advantage of the CS (which I currently value more than the salary), is the security. In a recession, my particular industry can be high-risk and volatile - it tends to follow the economic conditions.

Evaluating the worth of different jobs is always tricky though - never as simple as just looking at the salary.

I'm not striking anyway! My dept. didn't vote to do so.

I’m not striking. My salary is less than my private sector equivalent unless you factor in that our pension is worth 6x the standard private sector one. Plus my workload is half of what it was when I worked in private sector.

There are loads of totally delusional people in my dept who think everyone in private sector is on double their salary. I tend to find those who grumble that they’d be paid more in private sector are actually ones who’d last about 5 minutes in the equivalent role elsewhere and they’d be shocked to find out most private companies sack you if you do no work rather than let you trundle along like we seem to do!

I’m sure it varies a lot by role and dept though. I’m not claiming all civil service roles are piece of piss .

I do agree that the CS 'lifers' (the ones who've never worked elsewhere) tend to have a very rose tinted view of the private sector!

One colleague commented that she was sick of the boring admin/governance side of the job, and that she wouldn't have to do it in the private sector, and was really surprised when I pointed out that all jobs have some degree of boring paperwork/governance. It's just different paperwork! 😂

Oh god this!

In 15 yrs my salary has increased by £5k. This year mine went up by £400. My Boss's went up by £4k. Same %.

I will be striking and I will be leaving this year. I have really had enough. Not helped by people claiming we do eff all for final salary pensions. Bollocks.

Point to one post on this thread suggesting that civil servants ‘do eff all for final salary pensions’. You won’t win your argument by being a drama queen.

for final salary pensions.

I don't think many people are saying this. However your direct benefit pension is still excellent value compared to what else is out there.

Lots of people are leaving the public sector because the private sector is bidding higher for their skills. But with the acute shortage, the private sector also can't fill all roles.

You can’t have it both ways. Either there are underpaid specialists languishing in the civil service, or there are not. If they have all left for the sunlit uplands of the private sector and still the private sector cannot fill the roles, there can’t be any of those underpaid disadvantaged people left in the CS to go on strike, can there?

You've completely distorted what I've said.😂

Lots of people are leaving. Others are staying.

I have made clear that there are other benefits (pensions, job security) which make the CS attractive. I enjoy my job, and am happy to stay.

Literally all I pointed out was that for my specific specialism, the private sector pays 30-40% more, and all sectors currently have significant vacancies for my skills. The fact that not everyone is jumping ship from CS to private sector does not invalidate this.

No, you argued that it is ‘a workers’ market like you’ve never known’ and claimed that the private sector can’t fill its roles in your area that you say pay 30% to 40% more. In which case, as @TheKeatingFive asked, why aren’t all the civil servants in your field jumping ship?

The logical answer is that the differential in pay and conditions, including the pension, can’t be as big as you suggest and hence the civil servants can’t be too badly done by compared to the private sector. If they were, they’d have moved already. The employment market is not a perfect market but people aren’t daft.

A really common scenario is specialist leaves civil service and starts working as a contractor. Because civil service can’t attract talent they employ contractors. So the same person ends up working on various projects for civil service but it costs the government much more than it would to employ them. There billion pound projects that can only function because of external contractors because we recognise we can’t get skills internally. That feels very broken in a workforce the size of civil service.

I though I made clear - those who stay do so for the pension, security, and because they enjoy the job. The labour market is more complex than people swapping jobs just because the headline salary is higher, but the overall trend is that we are losing people to the private sector.

You wouldn't argue that nursing conditions must be fine if 'only' 50% of them left. What about teachers - they may be leaving in their droves, but some are staying, so their conditions must be okay too?

The fact is, as a country, we need good quality, skilled people to work in (for example) the government regulators as well as in the regulated private industries. There are also some services that can only really be provided by the government, and we need people to do those jobs. Everyone complains when their passport doesn't come on time, don't they?

Not everyone is driven by money, but there does come a tipping point where you stop being able to recruit and the public service collapses. That is starting to be seen in many areas right now.

It may be that the recession and cost of living crisis shifts things, but recessions are not good for workers regardless of the sector they are in. The end result is usually a loss of pay and detriment to conditions across the board, as competition for jobs increase and it becomes an employers' market.

Personally, I oppose the increase in the gig economy and insecure shitty jobs - I don't want a race to the bottom, I want everyone to earn decent wages. The average working person in this country is significantly worse off than they were 15 or 20 years ago - we need to work out how to address that.

We weren’t balloted but I would strike, yes. It won’t do any good though as the public couldn’t give a fuck and think none of us do anything anyway.