Civil servants - will you be striking on 1st Feb?

[Iamnotausername]

I know you probably can't say what dept you are in but will you be striking?

I will.

i think this is so tone deaf - if you feel you are paying too much into a pension then reduce your payments ?
I am in the position within the private sector where my mortgage payment is going to go sky high almost double in the next few months , to offset this I’ll need to drastically reduce my pension.
For those in the public sectors, can’t you just opt out or reduce too ?
Can’t believe you are striking over a pension ?

No we can't just reduce our pension contributions, they are taken at source at a set percentage. We aren't paid fairly for the amount we are responsible for.

The two grades below me are paid minimum wage for skilled work. I've had people stealing food in my office as they can't afford it.

Yes I'll be striking. We only have two non union members so it will close the office.

Civil Servant and yes we will be striking. This is the first time I've been in a union and first time I feel strikes are necessary because we're being forgotten about. NHS and teachers aren't the only people who worked during the pandemic to keep the country going.

Yes strikes will affect people because it's the first of many mass walkouts and includes 120 departments including Passport Office (there will be huge delays this summer), department of education (school admissions, exams), DW (benefits systems), Courts (civil and criminal), Home Office such as Border Force and Immigration, DBS (all recruitment checks and certificates will be hit and delayed), Ofsted, HMRC (taxes, end of year for self employed) etc.

The reason for those that aren't away is pay freezes for years. I have staff on less than minimum wage if you break down their salary.
Many have left in favor of private sector roles which pay higher for the same skill set.

Personally I've not had a pay rise for 6 years. I've been a CS for 6 years and have had nothing but cuts. I can't progress through my pay scale because most CS are paid bottom amount and there is no progressive pay system. I stay on what I came in on. I have to move jobs to get up the pay scale. I have had no bonus, cost of living allowance etc. I have had NI and tax increases My take home is less than when I started.

The amount of work I have to get through is astronomical. Staff aren't getting replaced, budgets are getting cut yet work is increasing. I work at least ten hours extra a week and still can't get it under control. I'm covering 3 jobs my own, 2, one off sick (stress) 1 left who isn't getting replaced. I cannot afford heating, lighting yet I'm expected to work from home daily and fund it. I would now struggle to finance a car for a commute to work. I'm middle management and better off than all on lower grades. My staff are using food banks.

People are leaving in their droves and not being replaced. IT systems are appalling and fail daily. No investment has been seen since I started and frankly the system is falling apart and making people unwell.

I am looking to leave as well.

We cannot affect what we pay into our pensions and they aren't as good as people think. I had private sector pensions that are probably better. We had a pay review 5 years ago. It was recommended we were being paid 6k under what was justified. The review was acknowledged but we've seen nothing, no additional pay, no levelling up. The head of our directorate got a 5 figure bonus this year because we hit our SLA and productivity targets (by working all the hours god sends). They're on a 6 figure salary to begin with. We got nothing, no Christmas card, no thank you, no 15 minute time allowance for a Christmas coffee with our team (I'm being arsey but honestly nothing, not even an email saying thank you).

It's shockingly bad.

Yes I will be striking.

FYI : non Union members can take part in strikes as long as their dept is mandated. I'm sure your colleagues would love the additional support.

www.gov.uk/if-your-business-faces-industrial-action/nonunion-employees-and-strikes#:~:text=Non%2Dunion%20staff%20and%20striking,the%20industrial%20action%20is%20lawful.

the union calling for the strikes (PCS) has done research that suggests civil servants are overpaying into their pensions, so they want to address this

We cannot affect what we pay into our pensions and they aren't as good as people think. I had private sector pensions that are probably better

Neither of these answers explain precisely what your complaint about pensions is. I followed the link posted on page 2, which meant going through along winded registration process, then having to do it again because they didn’t like the password, then clicking boxes containing traffic lights. Couldn’t you have just explained it in your post, as you were asked to do?

I suspect that you couldn’t, because the answer is complex. If you look beyond ‘we think we should pay less for our excellent defined benefit pension’ (and no way are there any private sector pensions open to new entrants that even come close, so wise up) and read the article, you get a discussion of McCloud costs. Which I googled because the linked article assumes that the reader k owns exactly what they are.

I’m paraphrasing here, because there’s a lot of detail and nuance, but the McCloud adjustment was introduced during the last decade, to protect the taxpayer from spiralling public sector pension costs. The expected cost of those schemes can fluctuate within +/- 2% from inflation-adjusted estimates made by the government actuary. If the cost varies by more than that, the McCloud remedy applies and benefits are adjusted. And vice versa.

According to what I have read this morning, the specific complaint is that projected future costs for the civil service scheme have fallen below the 2% because of changes to mortality, although that may be temporary - the government actuary thinks so - and civil servants want the McCloud remedy to be applied to their scheme so that they get more: a better accrual rate, or to pay less for the current accrual rate.

This, in a country with a massive deficit and a crisis in the NHS!

I’ve been a member of the CS pension scheme in the past. What I paid into the scheme, a high percentage because I was senior, didn’t even come close to covering the cost of the benefits I’ll draw when I retire. So I can’t support your pension complaint, sorry.

My husband & I were going to but then it turns out our department isn't on the list - So that's the end of that !

What happens when your employer is in breach of employment law? Are you going to pay for your own lawyer? Most people can't afford to, that's why we unionised.

Workplaces can still improve their safety, my union has been investigating the effect of diesel fumes.

I don’t think a one day strike will be effective.

I think you’d gain more by working to rule, politely refusing to do unpaid overtime - and letting those services to the public grind to a halt.

The pension issue is the least area I'm personally affected by due to my previous private sector pensions.

I'm striking because of pay and conditions. Where do you stand on these issues? Do you think it's acceptable to underpay staff for the work they do? To increase the quantity and responsibly over years due to a failure in staff investment and never address staff shortages? To accept workers are doing more hours than they are getting paid/contracted to work weekly and expecting this to continue? To ask them to work on IT platforms that fail daily and prevents them from working efficiently and effectively? To pay higher grade staff (earning upwards of £46k, then you're directly into the £60+80k region), increases in wage and bonuses based on their lower grade staff (now below min wage when based on hours worked/salary) meeting targets so unrealistic many are having to work additional hours and not taking holiday, (which we cannot cash in, we lose it) to stop them being questioned about their performance? To not give the lower grade staff a fair wage as indicated in an independent pay review recommendation of 6k per year from 5 years ago. That's an additional 35k underpayment we've not been paid while the top jobs continue to get pay increases and bonuses? Do you think staff moving jobs to get a pay increase from Department to Department (retraining always required and this can take months) is the best method of retaining experience, developing staff and improving on services and efficiency, or is it a waste on public money? Training staff for them to get so fed up they leave the CS?

Move jobs if you're not happy you might say. There are many reasons CS offices are based in areas of low employment and it's not solely because the government wants to help with access to jobs and reduce unemployment. It's to slow down staff leaving because the options aren't available. It doesn't make any of the above more acceptable!

IamSamantha
"The NHS and teachers weren't the only ones who worked through the pandemic".

I fully support your strike action and have family that work for the CS. Ultimately if the govt want clever techie types to stay, they are going to have to match industry standards for pay.

However, there is no comparison to working from home on a laptop during a pandemic, and working on a covid ward, witnessing countless people gasping for breath, until they died, like goldfish out of water. I and my colleagues did this and we are still paying the mental price for that.

Whilst I’m happy to have been of service in facilitating your venting, I’m going to suggest that you don’t attempt to answer questions like ‘exactly what is your beef about pensions?’ when you don’t know the answer. I see that you’ve now done a reverse ferret and are claiming that you are striking about pay, not pensions.

Some of your complaints, especially the “it’s the rich wot get the gravy” ones, and the gripes about unreliable IT, would be the same wherever you worked. You must see that? So it’s difficult to support a strike when the people striking don’t seem to be clear about their reasons, other than “I’d like more money and I don’t like the way that people more senior than me are rewarded”

I agree. I was frontline during the pandemic as I volunteered 2 days to go back to my old job (mental health) while also covering my CS role. Many of us who are from a health care/social care/medical care background did similar. Our office has been sold on since (money has gone back to the treasury) so we have to work from home. My DH is NHS and was also on the frontline. Incidentally he has had pay rises over the past 5 years, he got supermarket vouchers and a card at Christmas to say thank you and help with food increases. We got nothing, absolutely nothing not even a virtual Christmas card (cost of which is zero). Back office staff are ignored until they make a noise.

It shouldn't be them or us. All of us deserve to be paid a fair wage. I'd happily pay more tax into the system etc but not everyone I work with can afford to do that.

Strikes will continue, this is just the beginning.

It's your right to form your own opinion as it is ours. I appreciate you at least trying to find out the facts on the pension reason to strike which is based on us overpaying into our pensions based on the projected return we will receive during our retirement. It is unpalatable because we cannot affect what we pay into our pensions and therefore over the years we will be losing more money. Money which if we could affect the payin amount we could redirect to other pension schemes. At the moment we cannot do this. Those on lower incomes or lower hours do not benefit from the current pension scheme and have a secondary option. It's my understanding they cannot influence how much they pay into that either, you're either in or out. Due to interest rates over the past few years pensions where employers contribute are more viable for lower paid staff. BUT I agree it's a stretch to say forecasting pensions looking lower than expected is a reason to strike and pensions are a perk, not a right which is why for me it's not part of my reason to strike.

I have 25 years experience of working in private, 3rd sector and government including NHS, educational settings. The decline in working conditions over the past 6 years has now made the CS the worst employer I've had. I will be moving on.

I think it’s a hard sell to the general public, to support complaints about CS pension when it’s better than most people’s and - as this isn’t a race to the bottom - actually good in its own right.

However, the general public would be more supportive I think of not working unpaid overtime.

Why doesn’t the Union ask it’s members to stop doing that?
Or to record one week of working hours, and publish the result of that widely?

I do understand that you’re not going to “waste” a strike on a single issue, you’ll package all the changes wanted together. So of course you’ll mention the pension.

But I think the pressure would be greater if instead of a one day strike, you did a month long “no unpaid overtime” action.

Tell people they can’t get a passport cos CS are on strike: they’ll get pissed off with the workers who anyway have a great pension (as perceived!)

Tell people they can’t get a passport because there aren’t enough people employed: they’ll be pissed off with the government

If the workers keep working the unpaid hours, they’re not helping themselves.

I think it’s a hard sell to the general public, to support complaints about CS pension when it’s better than most people’s and - as this isn’t a race to the bottom - actually good in its own right.

This. Civil service pensions are, by any comparative measure, excellent. Try seeing how far your contributions would go in a direct contribution scheme.

I also agree that the overtime issues would be better addressed via other means.

I agree with anyone's right to strike, but I can't see this getting the public support of some of the other strike action.

DP is in a different union so won't be but we're both fully supportive of the strike. The pay offer is laughable. He's essentially had a 15% pay cut over the past 5 years. And despite what people seem to think, pay in the civil service isn't that great. I have less experience than he does and, quite frankly, my job is a lot less important, but I earn almost double what he does simply because I'm in the private sector.

I’ll be striking. I feel weirdly nervous about it.

since inflation is now at 13%, I think, most people have had ‘an effective pay cut’ of 13% as of now. So I don’t think you’re going to win hearts and minds that way.

You don’t genuinely think that all private sector employees get inflation matching pay increases annually, do you?

And, I’m rather bored of the myth that public sector employees could double their pay by joining the private sector. Not a chance. I’ve worked in both, currently in private. Junior and mid-level public sector roles are, in my experience, better remunerated than their private sector equivalents. Pointing out benchmarks never stopped the moaning though. I once suggested “why not leave then, and double your salary?”. Nobody did.

You don’t genuinely think that all private sector employees get inflation matching pay increases annually, do you?

No I don’t, but I’d support them if they went on strike over that, too. Race to the bottom helps nobody.

…the pension reason to strike which is based on us overpaying into our pensions based on the projected return we will receive during our retirement. It is unpalatable because we cannot affect what we pay into our pensions and therefore over the years we will be losing more money

But you are not ‘losing money’. You are buying an extremely generous pension at a bargain price. Not sure why you can’t see that? It would still be a bargain if you paid double.

My dept. didn't have a high enough turnout, but I support the strikers.

Exactly!

Who has benefitted from the stagnation of wages over the last 10-15 years? Not ordinary people who work for a living, that's for sure!

I won't be (not in the PCS and pay, conditions etc are pretty good in my department) but fully support those who are

I’m rather bored of the myth that public sector employees could double their pay by joining the private sector. Not a chance. I’ve worked in both, currently in private. Junior and mid-level public sector roles are, in my experience, better remunerated than their private sector equivalents.

It is dependent on skillset, specialism, seniority/experience etc, but I know that in my career the private sector pays 30-40% more (not inc. the pension, which is of course an important part of the equation). I know that from my experience in the private sector, not wild guesswork.

If someone is in a junior or more generic role (administrator etc.) then the differential may be very different, but for more niche specialisms my experience is that there is a big difference.