Body positivity and wanting to lose weight

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I can’t square away my desire to lose some weight with my agreement that women’s bodies (especially fat ones) are weaponised by patriarchal media and that it’s quite hard to be a fat woman in society.

I do believe in health at any size, that women’s bodies are not there for the male gaze, that my whole generation (elder millennial…shudder) have got quite disordered ways of looking at our bodies but I still find myself wanting to lose some weight because, after all, I’m quite vain and I do think I would look better 15kg lighter.

BUT it does seem really to be an undercurrent now that my desire to lose weight implies that I hold other people to these standards, that I think there’s something wrong with fat bodies in general, that I think there’s a right and a wrong way to be a woman and take up space etc etc. I don’t! It’s an impossibly high bar I set for myself.

I understand that on top of women’s health not being treated as seriously as men’s there’s an extra layer for fat women who are told that losing weight will solve all their problems - or to come back to GP when they’ve lost a certain amt of weight which is just awful. And I do get that health at every size is possible, but I am left wondering how true this is? Is someone like me with prob 15kg to lose at a much higher risk of various serious conditions or is this ‘systemic fatphobia’ I’ve been reading about? I know BMI is rubbish on an individual level but good for populations.

I suppose my question is, AIBH(ypocritical) to want to personally lose weight (because I’m vain and maybe there are real health reasons) but to support the body positivity movement? Or is the BP movement making excuses for obesity which is a really serious thing and health at every size is balonz?

Generally speaking, people who do two hours of cardio work every day do not stay obese for very long. I am a coach down my local rowing club, every year we run several learn to row courses. We are not an elite club so don't require people to be super fit athletes, so with that ethos in mind we take on all shapes and sizes including very overweight people. Those who stick out the course, a three month mix of on the water and land training, without exceptions, lose weight. Those who post course join the club and continue to train are different people 12 months later.

The metabolic reset mentioned worries me. It makes sense to me, and is borne out by my own experience and those I see around me who've dieted but does that mean there is no way to lose the weight now?

Being obese looks horrible and is likely to be uncomfortable and inconvenient at the very least but that doesn’t mean obese people are horrible people just that no one would choose that state.
However, it could happen to anyone due to illness/medication or injury so we shouldn’t be horrible to people who are large.
IF it’s so fucking great to be hugely fat why isn’t there a whole industry dedicated to intentional weight gain
No one aspires to be a size 36 (unless you’re bigger than a 36, then perhaps) The whole thing is emperor’s new clothes.

But you said studies have shown that many of the additional health risks are caused by fat people being ignored by doctors. I’m not arguing that fat phobia doesn’t exist, I’m saying that I’ve never seen a study that says many of the risks of obesity are caused by doctors ignoring fat people.

And I’m not ‘assuming every health issue a fat person has is due to their weight.’ You said many of the risks associated with obesity are caused by doctors ignoring them.

I really don’t believe in health at any size.

Again I’m not saying being fat isn't bad for you just that they are overly focused on weight as a cause. Also the vast majority of obese people will never be able to lose the weight so doctors continually asking that you lose weight delays treatment and puts people off seeking help.

I’m not saying heart disease (for example) isn’t caused or made worse by being obese but whether it kills you will be greatly effected by your treatment and a fat phobic health system will negatively impact on the outcome.
The idea that a bit of body positivity will make people fat is ludicrous when currently the whole of society puts huge amounts of pressure on girls/women to be thin and makes ridiculous moral judgments about fat people being lazy/weak/stupid etc and we still have obese people.

Until I was in my late 20s everyone - male or female - was a lot thinner than is the norm now. Nowt to do with the male gaze - it was just very rare to see someone fat and by fat I mean perhaps a size 18 now? It's being obese that has been normalised in the last 3 decades and that's not healthy for anyone. Don't obsess about having the perfect body whatever that means but don't kid yourself that being overweight doesn't have implications for health and everyday life.

That ^ was supposed to quote @Kanaloa

Right, so the studies that show many of the health risks of being obese are caused by doctors ignoring fat people don’t actually exist. The health issues may go untreated because of that, and either way it’s awful to think someone may be ignored because they are overweight, but doctors ignoring people is not the cause of the health problems.

Not caused but just have worse outcomes. I’m definitely not saying they don’t exist.

So for example, if someone who is obese and someone who is thin present to a doctor with shortness of breath fatigue and chest pains. The thin person is more likely to be believed and have their symptoms investigated. Where as an obese person might be told they just need to lose weight. This results in poorer outcomes for the obese person. Their potential illness may not be found until it is more severe.

Right, but that isn’t what I was asking. You said studies have shown many of the health issues associated with obesity have been shown to actually be caused by doctors ignoring fat people. I asked which studies show that. You then went off on a totally different tangent, because realistically doctors ignoring you can’t cause obesity related disease and disability. It can mean your treatment is under par, but it can’t cause the issues.

I said the health risks not the actual conditions

So if statistics say that obese people are three times more likely to die of heart disease, for example, that could be significantly improved by less fat phobic health care system

I am now on ADHD meds and the only reason I have lost weight is because I don’t eat.

I can go days without eating.

I have lost 4 stone over nearly 2 years.
I think other people would have lost double that.

I have never been able to eat the amount other people eat.
I find that if I have 2 rounds of bread in a day I won’t lose any weight
if I have 3 or 4 slices then I will put weight on regardless of what little else I have eaten.

What you do with your body is up to you. Whether that is for health or aesthetics.
I think rather than focusing on weight loss alone (as others have mentioned, intentional restricting can just lead weight to go upwards as the body's set point shifts up) it's good to focus on health promoting behaviours - so appropriate portions of nutrient dense food, avoiding ultra processed food, getting 10000 steps, regular cardio and weight bearing exercise, adequate sleep and hydration.

It is depressing reading the majority of posts on this thread gleefully declaring that health at every size is bollocks, when they clearly haven't understood it (especially for those proclaiming to be in healthcare)
It isn't about insisting that any size is healthy - it's about rejecting diet culture and weight stigma within healthcare (which does exist) and ensuring respectful healthcare. It is about focusing on health-seeking behaviours rather than just weight loss through restriction. I don't see that as particularly controversial.

Shouldn’t we stigmatise fatness when obesity-related illnesses are crippling the NHS? Smoking has rightly been stigmatised for the health issues connected with it. There is no such thing as passive obesity (but with the obesogenic environment we live in that’s an interesting thought) but we cannot just go around pretending you can be healthy and overweight, just cause we don’t want to hurt feelings.

I don't believe in BMI, I believe in fitness.

I'm overweight according to BMI. I can deadlift 110kg, bench press 50kg, complete cycle and other fitness classes. Did a new class this week where the instructor mentioned to other staff I was incredibly fit and strong.

But to look at, people would think I was fat on unhealthy based purely on BMI and looks.

When I'm older I know I'm going to be healthy due to increased balance and bone strength, even if I am 'fat'.

I get this, and I’ve found rebelfit to be really helpful along with the out of the cave podcast by Lisa Schlosberg. The most recent rebelfit mission was really focussed on exactly this, and it’s helped me a lot in my mindset shift. There’s a huge difference between desperately wanting to be thin as we feel shit and unworthy because we’re overweight (fuck you patriarchy and societal brain washing!), and wanting to be healthy strong and fit and to feel good and confident in your body. Eating without shame, eating with a nourishment mindsets and moving our bodies because it feels good, instead of as punishment to burn calories, are all fantastic imo

I don't think anyone is arguing that obesity related illnesses shouldn't be discouraged. The issue is that there is no evidence that stigmatising and shaming weight actually works in getting people to lose weight or improve health long term.

Comparisons with smoking are always a bit dodgy - you don't need to smoke but do need to eat so approaches to changing behaviour/quitting are generally different.

…. Said the person who clearly has zero understanding of what the intuitive eating movement is about.

So what does work? Cause last time I checked the government shelved eminently sensible plans to limit deals on unhealthy food etc. And whenever we talk about limiting deals on unhealthy food we get people saying ‘well I’m diabetic so Haribo can be essential so we can’t ban it’ etc, but we’re in a situation where 90% of the deals in my local co-op are for chocolate, crisps and biscuits. This isn’t helping anyone.

It's a pretty complex issue, not made easier, as you say by the sheer volume of highly processed, highly calorific food available nowadays.

However... I still stand by my point that shaming people hasn't really been shown to work. And actually to the previous poster saying "should we not be stigmatising obesity" - I'd argue that no, a healthcare professional shouldn't be. I don't think a HCP shaming people, or treating them poorly because of their size is something to aim for and doesn't work in the majority of cases. That's not to say HCPs shouldn't mention weight, but I think it can be done using respectful language in a way that helps the patient understand what health seeking behaviours they could adopt.

These replies are so interesting thanks all for your input. As you can probably tell I feel very conflicted. I still can’t equate “love the skin you’re in” with my wanting to lose weight for vanity.

I think I probably misspoke as so many of you have pointed out by saying that I believe in HAES. I think what I believe is that there is not one single healthy body type due to bone structure, fat distribution, body shape etc which is impacted by race, sex etc.