Body positivity and wanting to lose weight

[constituaint]

I can’t square away my desire to lose some weight with my agreement that women’s bodies (especially fat ones) are weaponised by patriarchal media and that it’s quite hard to be a fat woman in society.

I do believe in health at any size, that women’s bodies are not there for the male gaze, that my whole generation (elder millennial…shudder) have got quite disordered ways of looking at our bodies but I still find myself wanting to lose some weight because, after all, I’m quite vain and I do think I would look better 15kg lighter.

BUT it does seem really to be an undercurrent now that my desire to lose weight implies that I hold other people to these standards, that I think there’s something wrong with fat bodies in general, that I think there’s a right and a wrong way to be a woman and take up space etc etc. I don’t! It’s an impossibly high bar I set for myself.

I understand that on top of women’s health not being treated as seriously as men’s there’s an extra layer for fat women who are told that losing weight will solve all their problems - or to come back to GP when they’ve lost a certain amt of weight which is just awful. And I do get that health at every size is possible, but I am left wondering how true this is? Is someone like me with prob 15kg to lose at a much higher risk of various serious conditions or is this ‘systemic fatphobia’ I’ve been reading about? I know BMI is rubbish on an individual level but good for populations.

I suppose my question is, AIBH(ypocritical) to want to personally lose weight (because I’m vain and maybe there are real health reasons) but to support the body positivity movement? Or is the BP movement making excuses for obesity which is a really serious thing and health at every size is balonz?

The original Health At Every Size® philosophy has been twisted by the Body Positivity movement to suggest that 'fat can be is healthy' when what it actually promotes is "safe and equitable access to healthcare for people regardless of size, health status, and health goals first and foremost." I don't agree with all of the HAES principles but it was designed to take away the focus on losing weight and redirect it towards eating healthily and exercising for other health reasons, which is better than nothing.

Your dilemma is something I've been struggling with too - last year I decided that I was going to stop dieting for a whole year and follow the intuitive eating principles instead and that if I was still unhappy at the start of this year, I would start dieting again. Ironically, I lost weight! And I want to lose some more, and that's fine by me, because now I've developed healthier habits, I exercise for fun and I don't obsess over calories anymore.

We've spent our entire lives being told fat is bad, it's not surprising none of us really want to be fat - I don't think that makes you (or me) a hypocrite.

I cannot stress enough how valuable exercise is in dealing with this stuff. I do fairly intense exercise classes about five times per week, and it’s just completely changed how I feel about my body. It has made me want to eat more healthily so I have the fuel that I need, but it has also taken me focus off of the desperate desire to be thin that I felt for so long. Instead, I like feeling strong and seeing how I’m able to improve my performance in my classes. I’m also able to ski and paddle board because I have good core strength, and I absolutely know I couldn’t have done those things before.

I know that exercise might not make a big difference to the scale, but I really think it’s the key to changing how you feel about your body. That means that dieting isn’t about punishing yourself for not looking good, but about fueling yourself appropriately so you can achieve your goals.

I think people are entitled to be comfortable in their own bodies, whether by losing weight, or not wanting to lose weight!

I've always been OK with my body but last year did actually diet to lose weight for the first time (1.5 stone) - I figured better to keep on top of it now than getting to a stage when it would be harder to lose. I have been fairly slim my whole life and have a leg joint issue that would be worsened by being oveweight, so I try to stay under what would be considered overweight - not by much and I'm not aiming for a perfect body, just a weight that minimises stress on my joints. Also aesthetically for me all my weight goes to my stomach and I find it difficult to find clothes that fit well when I put too much weight on.

But there doesn't have to be a qualifying reason - if you just want to lose weight for health/aesthetic reasons, it's fine.

I lost 2 stone. I'm now mid point healthy BMI. I went from tired, sluggish, achey, always fighting headaches, stomach problems, out of breath at any exertion, making that grunting noise when I stood up or bent down...to fit, healthy, pain free, loads of energy, zero digestive issues, few headaches.. there is no way any BP movement is going to convince me there's no link between weight and health. Particularly as my mum died from an obesity related illness when she was not much older than me. I'm 53.
People who are healthy and OW are mainly those too young for it to have caught up with them.

It’d be daft to not loose weight because of what ideals you support and what people might think. You want to loose weight, so get started. Health at any size is a lie, and even though people can maintain health up to a certain point, it doesn’t mean loosing weight won’t make you healthier and feel better still. Do what’s right for you, don’t overthink the reasons not to loose weight.

Yes but people are terrified of BEING fat. And fat people are treated appalingly.

We would do much better as a society to understand that 80% of our weight is down to our genetics and that people just have different body types. Once someone who is a tiny bit overweight - or perhaps just average but wants to be skinny - starts dieting, they raise their weight set point and actually gain weight in the long term. For anyone interested in the science, I suggest reading 'Why We Eat (Too Much). Not sure I agree with the 'non diet' (it totally is a diet) suggested at the end but the science is pretty solid written by a bariatric surgeon.

Your knocking on the door of obesity with those stats OP. Healthy at every size is bollocks. You've got kids; lose the weight and be a healthy mum and good role model for them.

Body positivity for me is about mental health - not listening to the voices (internal or external) that tell you that fat equals lazy, stupid, greedy and ugly.

HAAS for me is about physical health (as PP said) particularly that fat bodies deserve care & healthcare and that being fat shouldn’t stop you from exercising or being active (the fact that you couldn’t buy activewear over a size 16 until a few years ago tells you all you need to know about that)

Neither of those necessarily contradict wanting to lose weight for health reasons.

important to remember that the causes of obesity are as much social as individual (the composition of food has changed hugely in the last 30 years)

also important to remember that being healthy doesn’t make you a better person and being unhealthy doesn’t make you a bad person.

If I went by bmi I would be considered overweight, possibly obese. I exercise everyday with a variety of activities across the week (play sport, weights at the gym and run). I think you can be healthy at any size because I am healthy, I eat a balanced diet and have a resting heartbeat of 52. My sister is significantly slimmer than me, she has a couple of takeaways every week and I don’t think she has exercised since school PE 15 years ago, just because she is smaller doesn’t mean she is healthier.

You can be thin but have organs surrounded by fat. You can be larger but all muscle and fit and healthy. Size doesn’t necessarily indicate health.

Eating lots of fresh, whole foods and fibre is good for you all round. So is exercising regularly. That’s what keeps us well, healthy and to have a greater sense of well-being. Focus on that rather than the number on the scales or the dress size you wear.

We need to move away from certain body shapes and sizes being deemed attractive (this has changed over time and is different in different cultures so isn’t a ‘truth’) and learn to love ourselves and value and respect each other whatever we look like.

That’s different to the pursuit of health and building and maintaining a healthy lifestyle. That’s what we should encourage and strive for.

The appropriate comparator for an overweight person who eats well and excercises is a slim person who eats well and excercises, not a slim person who eats junk food and never moves off the sofa.
When assessing the health benefits of losing weight, the only pertinent comparison is your current self versus yourself at a healthy weight.
As long as you don't inexplicably drop your healthy lifestyle along with the extra kilos, you'll be even healthier slim.

I think the health at every size movement has some good points. Drs shaming people and blaming everything on their weight is not going to lead to good health outcomes. Not is it helpful to larger people's health if they feel uncomfortable to be seen at the gym or swimming pool, or if they are bullied and develop stress or depression.

I also think that it goes too far in claiming every body shape is equally healthy. The truth probably lies between the two camps.

If you're obese then you have higher risks of various health issues than you would if you weren't. It doesn't mean you aren't in good health now
Im obese and exercise regularly, rarely get ill etc but I need to lose 4 stone to protect my future health. It's as simple as that.

Anyone thinking of going 'on a diet' (seems like a lot in this thread), please read this:
laurathomas.substack.com/p/heres-what-happens-when-you-go-an

Thank you for this😊

Absolutely hit the nail on the head with this post.

The many posters who’re shrieking ‘it’s all bollocks’ need to check themselves on the ignorance meter.

Fat shaming and systemic fatphobia is real and negatively affects so many people’s lives. So many people are too ashamed to get help, join a gym, go for a swim or run etc. Many people grew up surrounded by toxic thinness.

The majority (if not all) diets don’t work long term and study after study shows that most people bounce back weight wise, because it’s unsustainable.

Years of yo-yo dieting is terrible for health. Creates an environment ripe for eating disorders and disordered eating in general where foods are demonised and calories are obsessed over.

Intuitive eating is very interesting and has helped a lot of people to reframe their approach.

I work in healthcare. Absolute nonsense that there is health at any size. Working in my field motivated me to stay slim. You do not want illnesses such as heart disease, diabetes, arthritis etc that are more commonly associated with obesity. Fuck the male gaze.

But i do agree that fat shaming is awful...people put on weight for a myriad of issues. In my setting there is chocolate everywhere in the office...gets eaten by the staff very quickly.

I do intermittent fasting....weight has dropped off. Healthy food is delicious.

I've always understood "health at any size" to mean "whatever size you are, you can do things to improve your health" ie it's better to be fat and active, eating your greens, going to the doctors when necessary etc, than fat, inactive, eating crap and avoiding the doctor- it doesn't have to be a negative spiral.

That's not what activists have turned it into though. The fact that the OP is questioning whether it's ethical for her to try to lose weight is exactly the problem with HAES now.

Fatshaming is awful. Fat people are not lesser. But clearly HAES has gone too far when people think being a healthy weight is pandering to the patriarchy.

As @5128gap said upthread, comparing a fat, active person who doesn't smoke or drink to a thin, inactive person who smokes or drinks is simply disingenuous. All things being equal, being a healthy weight when you hit mid 40s is a good goal. Because after that losing weight becomes incredibly tough.

For what it's worth, I'm with you, OP, in how you feel about diet culture.

I have never and would never fit into the heroin chic, braless in strappy dresses, nothing tastes as good as skinny feels mode.

I'm one of the people for whom BMI is quite a poor measure. Muscly, and broad framed (my fingers can't meet around my wrist at any size and my shoulders are 2" wider than the top of the average range for women). A nurse laughed at my BMI coming out at 27, when I had a 28" waist at 5'9". Resting heart rate in the athlete range, high aerobic capacity, perfect blood pressure - I can have a BMI of 27, and be perfectly healthy.

But having this attitude didn't help me when I later gained weight. I was so busy with resisting unhealthy mindsets that I lost sight of what was healthy for ME too.

I had to work HARD to lose that weight, then long covid stacked a few more pounds on.

The best way to be "body positive" is to nourish your body with good food and maintain it with exercise/ activity levels. Love what your body does for you, and look after it.

You wouldn't proclaim that you love your car, then load it so the suspension barely copes, put the wrong fuel type in, take it out once every 3 weeks, scrape it into bushes/trees and wonder why it performs poorly.

Significant excess weight has a health cost. You may have plenty of nutrients, but it costs more effort to move. Yes, obese people can and do run marathons, but at any running event the top 10% will be pretty lean and the average BMI will go up towards the back of the event. Very, very few are fast and fat; fit enough to participate, but not fast.

The health toll is cumulative. You can get away with it when you're in your 20s-30s, but it does catch up in middle age. The younger you were obese, the harder it is to change your habits/ lifestyle/ view of yourself and the physical toll. My motivation comes from my dad dying as a result of his lifestyle in his early 50s. If it's about genetics, then looking at my family, I have "fat genes", they're all overweight past 35... except my lifestyle is different and that is far more influential. I'm realistic about my body shape- my priority is to treat my body well.

It's worth eating and moving in a balanced way as an act of self love. It's not about morality, vanity or politics; you have one body to carry you through life, care for it.

Thanks everyone some really interesting perspectives.

Can anyone recommend some good reading on intuitive eating?

As a fat person myself, the body pos movement has not helped me. It has made it more tormenting and confusing as to what I should accept.

I have had to square this away by working out that it means being fat doesn’t stop me being good at my job, or a good parent or not being worthy of being loved or respected, but in terms of health it is negative. I am unhealthy and I need to lose weight.

I don’t want to accept health at all sizes if in reality I am going to die earlier than I might otherwise. I really worry about this movement giving out an absolutely false sense of security. Being fat is within my control, although it’s clearly emotional problems as I know it’s not good for me yet I am still doing things that make me fat. I don’t think I should be treated badly as I am fat, or even judged for it but it’s on me to change it. I refuse to be pressured by unpleasantness or cruelty but I need a healthy dose of reality - fat is probably bad for you and I would help myself by losing weight

Intuitive Eating - Evelyn Tribole & Elyse Resch (4th Edition). It really did change my life!