To think we could make housing estates like Center Parcs re cars

[QuertyGirl]

The USP of Centre Parcs is for many, the fact that they are mostly car free. Kids can play out and ride their bikes like I did when I was kid.

Can't do that now due to the amount of cars, speed and size of cars and, attitude of some car drivers.

People (including myself) pay a small fortune to holiday at CP.

Why can't we make housing estates more like that?

Communal car parks in walking distance, deliveries by small electric vehicles from a hub (like old fashioned milk floats), exemptions for blue badge holders and funding for electric mobility scooters for those that need them.

Yet, if the council suggests a couple of cycle lane and all hell breaks loose.

Yes this and we all use pedallos on wheels and make our world so small everything is within ten mins walk . 😂

@LordEmsworth

But we are different! Wonderfully so in many cases. I wouldn't change myself for a million pounds.

Hiding who you are because of the prejudice that you describe there is desperately sad. I'm very sorry if you or someone you love has experienced that, it's totally not acceptable.

It would be nice if we could trust people to drive sensibly and only use cars when truly needed, but we can't.

But people choose to be outdoors any time they want. And ‘interaction with the community’ and loose, screaming kids are of zero appeal. A park is the obvious answer, rather than huge inconvenience.

You’ll benefit from cleaner air though.

you do realise that a decent % of people even in well off countries don't have access to a car, either at all or for a lot of the day?

People in a lot of countries also don't have access to clean water and walk miles to get it. I can't see suggestions we all start popping down to a communal tap being accepted, so why does it matter what people in other countries do as an example?

@Roundandnour Also fucked if you needed emergency services because car free zone

This isn't true - car free zones still require access for emergency services, e.g. pedestrian walkways wide enough to fit the vehicles, bollards with keys they can use etc. It's a planning requirement.

All of your example are very judgmental, where are the people volunteering, caring for elderly relatives and young children.

We're not talking about places without water. We're talking about well off areas of London, or the Netherlands.

Cleaner air in a village in the country? Are you gonna stop the farmers spreading shit?

Why not!

1. people want to see their cars, they are territorial and can’t bare that they are out of site.

2. convenience- parents, elderly etc.

3. developers won’t do it as it doesn’t fit their standard model that they ‘market’ as living the dream (hence such little storage and space internally and externally).

4. only suitable for new build estates where people sign up to it at the outset.

number 3 is your biggest stumbling point.

Oh I'd love you to tell me how that works with my job as a gardener when I have a lawn mower to load and a bunch of other stuff. Which would be multiple trips. Oh and 15kg of dog food? I'm strong but you're absolutely not being realistic.

Yeah, this is a good point - being able to move according to need has to be affordable. And obviously, public transport has to be good. So many rural services have been reduced or stopped in recent years because (again!) we assume everyone has cars and have set ourselves up for that, when it's not true.

Not a great example Mrs. D. Walking miles to access clean water is not particularly beneficial. Whereas fewer cars, fumes, congestion etc has many benefits.

You sound very judgy, OP. Whether you mean it or not. You think people spend hours in the gym to be insta-ready? Nothing to do with keeping fit and leading a healthy lifestyle then? Also, God forbid someone going to get their nails and hair done!

And as a matter of fact, just because you manage without a car, doesn't mean other people would want to. Not does it mean it's practice. And whilst it may be ideal on holiday, it would be most inconvenient day to day.

And before you think I rely on a car, I don't, as I didn't drive. But my bus stop is about 300 metres from my house and that's struggle enough some days to get my toddler down to. Yes, it is heaps easier when my husband is around and we use the car. No way I'd want to walk 15 minutes with a toddler and a butt load of shopping from a bus stop / car park when it's scorching hot / chucking down.

The solution is revising and enforcing stricter speed limits for residential areas. I too grew up peacefully playing outside, but it wasn't because people parked 15 minutes away. It was because cars drove extremely slowly around our streets.

LordEmsworth

Perfectly put - I completely agree with you.

I also think that some people believe blue badges are something you can just send off a request for and they arrive by return post. It's (rightly) very difficult to get a blue badge. If everybody elderly and/or with mobility problems was allowed one, they'd lose their utility for those who are the most in need of them and thus should currently have one.

Also worth bearing in mind is that not everybody who is unable to drive will simply adapt and 'find a way' to cope; lots of people with disabilities and mobility problems currently don't cope at all - they just stay at home, making do, putting up and leading very restricted lives, because they have no other choice. Maybe this is why some people (incredibly, even those with some level of disability themselves, as here) assume that those folk don't exist, as they aren't visible in public.

Moreover, mobility scooters and wheelchairs are not the same thing. Some can use either or both, but many will only find one of them suitable for their needs. Is somebody expected to keep a scooter at their home, one wheelchair in their home and one in their car, and then simply hop between them in a way that disabled people generally find painful, extremely difficult and/or impossible (not to mention often undignified) to do?

Even if you do qualify for a blue badge, if you can't drive yourself, you still have to live with or close to somebody who can drive you around and has the time and resources to do so, which many, many people do not have the option of.

The whole thing about Center Parcs is that it's a choice to go there for your holiday, if what they offer/require suits your needs and preferences. If it doesn't, there are plenty of alternative options available. That's worlds apart from being told that everybody has to live a 15-minute walk from a car and tough if that ends up leaving you housebound.

Which then restricts people's choice of supermarket. You can't shop at Aldi or Lidl if you can only have your shopping delivered

Get an electric ride on lawn mower!
Problem solved.

With a bootful of shopping?

yeah right.

Do those of you saying mobility scooters have any idea what it's like for a disabled person to have to transfer to a car from a chair?

This is starting to happen (as pp mentioned). Dh is in the industry and is always talking about it. He’s been citing cp as an example too for years op. I think it would be amazing, where practical.

if Schools, shops, nurseries and workplaces were within a bike-able / walkable distance then it works. We rarely use our car because we have great public transport and can walk or cycle to work, nursery etc. we probably only use it for a big shop / click and collect which would be a hassle. Returning from a holiday or trip and having to unload the car and carry for 10 mins would be annoying.

rather than go car free we just need to design new developments with amenities on site and decent cycle lanes. Nothing makes me more depressed than those big housing estates where you can’t walk to anything except a costa drive through.

Right. I live in the Netherlands and would never move back to the UK. I hated being reliant on a car so much, especially when I was stuck with a newborn when my DH had to take the only car to work. I couldn't even go to a proper supermarket without a car and I lived in a big village (5000 people).

I can walk 2 minutes to my local shops (supermarket, butcher, baker, Wilko type shop) or cycle 10 minutes to the city centre.

If I want to go further afield I cycle 5 minutes to a train station where there is also a car from a car sharing club.

How would it work in a rural area where the shops and schools and doctors etc aren't all local?

People will come up with 1000 reasons why they can't be more than 5 steps from car to front door.

I have to park a few roads away. It's, at worst, occasionally a bit inconvenient. People are just used to facing no inconvenience at all, even if it would make life broadly nicer.

(Obviously I think not being able to walk a few roads is a valid exception)

I don't doubt it has, and as a permanent pedestrian I agree that some people's reliance on cars is ridiculous (once had a neighbour who took the Merc to the paper shop 2 minutes away).