To think we could make housing estates like Center Parcs re cars

[QuertyGirl]

The USP of Centre Parcs is for many, the fact that they are mostly car free. Kids can play out and ride their bikes like I did when I was kid.

Can't do that now due to the amount of cars, speed and size of cars and, attitude of some car drivers.

People (including myself) pay a small fortune to holiday at CP.

Why can't we make housing estates more like that?

Communal car parks in walking distance, deliveries by small electric vehicles from a hub (like old fashioned milk floats), exemptions for blue badge holders and funding for electric mobility scooters for those that need them.

Yet, if the council suggests a couple of cycle lane and all hell breaks loose.

I see we’re back in “disability is mostly peoples own fault” land

Yep, the message I saw a lot in lockdown when masks were being discussed and some people were claiming exemption because of disability. The comments imlying that people can be less disabled if they just try a bit harder.

This is why parents should keep double buggies for a lot longer 😉. More exercise for the parents.

I don't drive, don't qualify for a blue badge. But I still have health issues which prevent from carrying my 10 shopping bags. I get a taxi to do the shopping so I won't have to carry them. But on your estate the taxi won't take me to my house. I carnt pull a trolley how do propose I get the shopping to my house. And no I don't trust delivery so that won't happen

We did not have a car when I was a child so walked and used public transport all the time. The difference though was a full range of small shops - butchers, green grocers, newsagents, hardware shop, post office and a small Coop within 10 minutes walk, so doing a number of small shops was not an issue. There was also a bus service into town every 20 minutes and took about 25 minutes. Now the local shops have pretty much gone, just a newsagents that does a bit of everything, so fine for milk, bread and the odd can or packet if you run out. The others have been replaced by takeaways, a couple of offices and a hairdressers/beautician. The bus now only runs once an hour and lots of extra estates have been added to the route as other bus services have been withdrawn and it now takes 70 minutes to get to town. It is also hit and miss at times due to driver shortage or if delayed, the bus turns back before coming on to our estate in order to catch up.
I agree that we do need a change in mindset when designing new housing estates and also business parks etc to be more pedestrian friendly and less reliant on cars. This will also require significant investment in regular, reliable public transport and proper cycle paths. Planning is key - we have a lovely green business park a few miles away with minimal cark parks to discourage car use. But it is not on a bus route! Hence cars are parked wherever they can, on the grass verges etc. Distance wise it should be accessible by bike but in my opinion painting a white line at the edge of a dual carriageway with a 40mph speed limit is just not safe for cyclists.

Yip.

I’m not a massive fan of cars (although have one) and wince a bit at this being the expectation for everyone

There is a pretty big gap between ‘not fit/healthy/well enough to do this’ and ‘qualifies for a mobility scooter/blue badge’, and those people will be marginalised by plans like this

Which would then make these estates ghettos for the well (and well-off?) and anyone with a health condition has to live elsewhere

We definitely need to rethink car use but we cannot assume everyone can be a pack horse every week

She shopped every day because there were no fridges then ( I'm 57).

There were plenty of fridges then. 60% of households in the UK had a fridge by 1970.

For all the people saying it would be impossible with kids and shopping... you do realise that a decent % of people even in well off countries don't have access to a car, either at all or for a lot of the day? When my first 2 kids were born we didn't have a car at all so relied on public transport, and it wasn't always perfect but was fine. Now I live in a city with limited parking, so often need to park on a street a few minutes walk away.

Yes, if you have to use the car every day due to poor public transport, distant school etc, needing to park 10 or 15 mins away would get really annoying.

However that's not the case for the majority of people - if it was 5 mins away, and with the ability to drop off shopping/kids by the door when needed, that would suit most.

Climate change is a slightly separate issue. That would be more about getting people to leave the cars at home and travel by active travel or public transport, making people park a short walk away from their homes after their car journeys isn’t going to meaningfully affect emissions. It’s more about the environment outside the houses.

Didn't they try this with Stevenage and other new towns?

I think it has pros and cons.

Or, instead of inconveniencing an entire estate just so some kids in the age range that want to play outdoors can be turned loose-build a park. 🥴
A designated area safe to play in.

Haven't RTFT but I assume someone's already pointed out Span estates, where cars/parking are on the edges, and the central feature is a shared green space.

Hopefully there will also be estates for those of us who would rather put pins in our eyes than go to CP? I get that the appeal is that kids can roam free but I can’t think of anything worse that listening to kids shrieking outside my house all day.

Nice quiet estates where people can park outside their houses, with coffee shops and nice pubs/restaurants where kids are not allowed also need to be built.

Fuck that for a game of soldiers!

Bb holders are allowed little electric cars that don’t go above a certain speed.
I’m loving the image of this idyll!! Sign me up.

Err - how about you read mine?

A. Lot. Of. Disabled. People. Do. Not. Want. To. Be. Singled. Out. As. Different. How hard is that to understand?

Someone with a blue badge might not want to have the local kids asking, "dad why is that lady allowed to drive on the road when we're not?". They might not want the neighbours giving them dirty looks because they act like they're special with their exemptions.

Someone who can't walk more than say 500 metres might not want a blue badge. You're saying, well tough, you need to get a blue badge to prove that you are exempt from the normal rules of life. Here are some new words for you: Dignity, and Respect.

There may well be some disabled people who feel differently, but most of those I know want to lead a normal life, not be singled out for special treatment. Therefore they would avoid putting themselves in this scenario, and therefore they would be excluded from "normal" life. You're saying ah that's their choice - I am saying, because you have set the system up in a way that forces them to make that choice. Surprised you're not already in government, with that attitude.

I like this idea, although wouldn’t work for my campervan.

Yip @LordEmsworth Absolutely.

Op your solution would end up with disabled segregation

YABU for thinking centre parcs is mostly car free. That is what I thought the first time I went but on arrival/departure days it is mad, and every other day there is a continuous stream of delivery/maintainence/housekeeping/late arrives/early departures/activity/blue badge and a whole range of other mostly petrol/diesel vehicles driving around. I didn’t feel confident letting my children ride on the roads there when they were little.

And no doubt a whole bureaucracy will be required to study applications for permits, how often and how long and how much and what for. What about emergencies?

I lived on an estate like this. It really wasn’t that great. Three kids under 5, I’m disabled and had a husband at the time. He drove I didn’t.

Small bit of shopping was ok. Big monthly shop was horrendous. I was just okay with 2 trips. Deliveries of furniture and electric items I had to make sure I timed those when I wasn’t alone.

The whole estate was car free and the parking was horrendous due to things like multiple car homes, visitors etc.

Also fucked if you needed emergency services because car free zone.

Great for kids to play though. Park, ball pitch, could freely bike and scoot around the estate. Play tag etc.

Blue badge system is also one of those schemes that is abused. You can buy them on the black market, legal owners lending it it to others etc.

It's not just for kids. Everyone benefits from cleaner air, more ability to interact with our community, a bit of exercise, fewer cars driving around fast or after a few drinks. Having the car less accessible is also likely to mean fewer short trips in the car and reduce overall pollution.

All of this feels like a pretty good tradeoff for a 5 min walk to your car.

Can someone please explain to me as a disabled person when supposedly "everyone" benefits from a bit of exercise how I do? How does that benefit me?

Thanks.

Where has the OP said that it's mandated to live in her utopia?

Surely if you didn't want to register for a blue badge but felt you needed a car nearby for an essential reason this would be heard.

Well of course the emergency services can come in!