To think we could make housing estates like Center Parcs re cars

[QuertyGirl]

The USP of Centre Parcs is for many, the fact that they are mostly car free. Kids can play out and ride their bikes like I did when I was kid.

Can't do that now due to the amount of cars, speed and size of cars and, attitude of some car drivers.

People (including myself) pay a small fortune to holiday at CP.

Why can't we make housing estates more like that?

Communal car parks in walking distance, deliveries by small electric vehicles from a hub (like old fashioned milk floats), exemptions for blue badge holders and funding for electric mobility scooters for those that need them.

Yet, if the council suggests a couple of cycle lane and all hell breaks loose.

Seriously ..have you never been followed as a pedestrian had men leering at you, had your son threatened with a knife at 6pm whilst out with 3 other scouts? The odd horn blast isn't going to kill you....or are you going to come out with being the victim of road rage dragged from your car?

@jannier

They tracked street crime in relation to numbers of residents and incoming workers, ie per capita.

There is no actual evidence that pedestrianisation increases crime, none.

There is evidence that it decreases it.

Please feel free to prove me wrong with some data.

@jannier

I've had cars pull up to lear at me. I've had taxi drivers try it on.

I've had men in the street try it on with cars whizzing past. No help there.

The safest mode of travel I've found at night, is actually a night bus. Preferably crowded.

Second to that is a bike (badly driven cars are another matter)

YANBU OP. I live in the Netherlands. People don’t usually do a weekly shop - they do smaller ones every 2-3 days, with multiple small kids in tow, in all weathers. All thanks to buggies, cargo bikes etc. You do need good infrastructure though (e.g. proper cycle lanes that are separate from the main carriageway) and the ideal sort of ‘10-minute town’ where amenities are within a reasonable distance. This takes a radical change of mindset and of course investment, which the U.K. government is unwilling to countenance.

The weather is not an excuse in itself, at all. Dutch weather is very similar to U.K. weather. You just need a decent rain suit and pair of wellies and everyone is fine, even small kids.

I too find that people are far too car-dependent. I cycle to work (20-30 minutes each way) or get the bus (20 minutes) or tram (30-40 minutes). I am lucky enough to have amenities (doctor, dentist, supermarket etc) within walking distance (10-15 minutes tops) but even if I had to go into the town centre proper for those, it wouldn’t take any longer than my commute via public transport or bike. My son’s school and after-school club are also only 10-15 minutes’ walk away. He takes his scooter in the morning and my husband runs after him! I bring him home on the bike. He’s 4. When he was smaller I would just pick up bits and pieces of food shopping while we were out and about and shove them under the buggy. His baby brother is due soon and we will buy a buggy board and cargo bike. When it rains he just wears his rain suit and wellies. It’s really not that hard.

No I’ve never had a child threatened with a knife at 6p. - that is, fortunately, not the norm (unless you read the daily mail) but I’m sorry that happened to you. How terribly sad.

I have however had multiple scary encounters with creepy men in cars driving by, stopping, leering, shouting and honking. Also too many instances to count of seeing people who simply should not be driving, driving on pavement, aggressive driving, unable to follow basic road rules. Not to mention the unbelievable numbers who should no longer be driving but refuse to give in license. That (a vulnerable / unsafe person operating a ton+ of machinery) is all far more scary to me than any dark alley with possible bogeyman.

Imagine a single mim having to walk 10-15 min with the food shop and two young children in tow 😵‍💫

Endless inconvenience for everyone and more women would be raped and murdered. So no thanks. Using cars less when practical absolutely. I commute by train, walk kids to school, shops and visiting friends etc.

interested in how much exercise commenters here do. The thought of a 15 minute walk has gone straight to women will be murdered. Ladies please get fresh air and go outside if you can - the world is not such a bad place!

It’s a miserable January night here. It’s dark, it’s pissing down, I’m still getting over the flu. I’d rather sleep in my car than walk uphill for 15
mins in the pissing rain just to get to my house, when I have a perfectly good driveway.

It’s all well and good having a 15 minute walk to your car when you’re on holiday - no work, no school runs, no appointments. It’s not practical for daily life for a lot of people. Sure, provision for blue badge holders is great but what about if you’re just unwell? Or if frankly you can’t be arsed after a day at work or a day of parenting?

We usually visit CP once a year, and while I enjoy the car-free aspect I absolutely would not choose to live like that.

Just to add, after seeing some of the comments, I’m a keen hillwalker and outdoor swimmer, and I go to the gym ~4 times a week. Those are activities I plan time for and dress appropriately for. I’m not going to kick about the office in my hiking gear

Several.estates round here were built like that I the 60s and 70s. They were great back then, when people walked everywhere, but by the 80s became crime hot spots because everything was so secluded. With no passing "traffic" there were no passing people.

Most have been demolished now and the remaining ones are notorious for anti social behaviour drugs, violence and other crime.

Mediocrity, and yet lots of people do raise families without the use of a car. Bikes, buses and trains are very handy.

Well yes, obviously. I didn’t it’s not possible to manage without a car, I said that wouldn’t work for me.

My newish housing estate is in the arse end of nowhere; transport links are crap, as are other amenities. I work in a small village an hour away from where I live, and once calculated it would take me 3 hours to get to work by public transport. This threat wasn’t about not having a car, it was about people with cars having to be a 15 min walk from their car

Mediocrates, Fair enough, but car use can still be reduced, supermarkets deliver, you mentioned groceries being an issue

Not Aldi and Lidl though

Again, I was talking about parking rather than car reduction. I’m sure most of us could reduce our car use. Bear in mind though that supermarket deliveries are all well and good provided you have no unexpected needs or items you can’t get, and also the time to plan far enough in advance to order everything you need

And the councils could charge £2000 a week for a family of 4

get real !

We didn’t go to CP primarily because it was car free, we went because of the activities all being laid on for us at close proximity to the accommodation.

What about the elderly. There is no way my 88 year old dad woyld navigate a 10-15 min walk, espically with evan a small bit of shopping. This idea could actully make people house bound and dependent on others. I usually do a big shop every 10 days, I have injuries to my shoulders. I couldnt carry heavy bags that far and it would take more than 1 journey. Also what if you wanted to load your car with large items such as old furniture to dispose of, how would that work ?, or having to leave home 15 mins earlier for work, when you already work a 13 hr day. Nah

Do you do the big shop OP? Cos I don't think you do.

Most people at Centreparcs do not go off site. They do not go to work or school.

Your comment about car use got me thinking. I’m mid-40’s, and I don’t think the society we live in now is similar to the one I grew up in, in terms of lifestyles.

When I was a child, one parent worked and the other stayed home. We had one car. My mother took us out and about on the bus or on foot, and we walked to school. When I consider my working hours (my DH and I both work full time), and the transport links available, I genuinely can’t see how we’d manage to do everything we need to do without our cars. In fact, we had a car disaster before Christmas and one car was in the garage for weeks. We really struggled, getting favours from friends and family.

Towns and cities have grown exponentially, with lots of new development on the outskirts. My children’s schools aren’t walkable from our house, and even if it was there’s no way we could do the school run and then get to work etc. Not to mention the five billion activities that kids can do now, and the dashing from childcare, home for dinner, and back out to swimming/dancing/drama/whatever

YANBU. There are so many reasons why we need to kick our car dependency, not least because the planet will be uninhabitable within our children's lifetimes if we don't. There's a lot that could be done to make it work, but needs govt to act, because it can be hard for individuals to make the changes work. Here's some inspiration:

@RachaelN

No, we live of grass from the garden

Yet I manage in a very similar way to your mother.

40% of households where I live have no car, a chunk of the rest will only have one.

We manage. Our children are fine.

I think what we need to encourage is old-fashioned density.

Why are we building towns and setting our lives up to be hopelessly dependent on expensive, dirty, dangerous machines just to get to school, work or any services? It's totally illogical.