To think we could make housing estates like Center Parcs re cars

[QuertyGirl]

The USP of Centre Parcs is for many, the fact that they are mostly car free. Kids can play out and ride their bikes like I did when I was kid.

Can't do that now due to the amount of cars, speed and size of cars and, attitude of some car drivers.

People (including myself) pay a small fortune to holiday at CP.

Why can't we make housing estates more like that?

Communal car parks in walking distance, deliveries by small electric vehicles from a hub (like old fashioned milk floats), exemptions for blue badge holders and funding for electric mobility scooters for those that need them.

Yet, if the council suggests a couple of cycle lane and all hell breaks loose.

Cycling is usually the quickest way to travel in cities

Could also put a unicorn sanctuary in the middle of this utopia for the children to view...

I would love this, every one could have an electric golf buggy to go around the estate/village, and they’d just drive it to the car park when they wanted to drive further out (or walk of course).

The problem is there would have to be a few exceptions so your children would never be totally safe (similar to at Center Parcs, you can’t fully let your guard down as they do let some people drive around).

Whammy - given that cities across the world have now implemented car free areas and are continuing to so, this kind of planning is becoming a reality, not sure where unicorns come into it

I agree re cars in centralised parks vs cars in driveways

The problem is it would be shouted down by a horde of people on here who are not disabled, so don’t need the car right outside the front door, and yet they see cars as a psychological extension of their psyche.

They see a car, parked as close as possible to the house, up on a kerb etc, as a human right. It gives “freedom” and “independence”, and having to walk three to four minutes to get into the car negates the whole experience.

It’s all about convenience and “I can”. Why give away a bit of control when you can have a car, right outside your door, ready to take you anywhere? It’s also been branded as an essential aspect of women’s safety now. Try arguing against that - I get shouted down as a woman.

until this psychological approach is beaten, the great suggestions on this thread won’t work.

They exist - see DRT or dial a ride.

In the day time ....and who said it was one town many pedestrian schemes have caused this problem..many are now being reversed.....but not just towns most people won't walk through housing estates alleyways either. Snickets, gulley's, alleys, pathways have all been known over years to be dangerous places to go at night just because you don't want them to be doesn't make it different.

Dial a ride doesn't work that way we have to go to town on the days and times they say pick up on Tuesday at 10 drop home at 4 no choice which doesn't fit with medication or need to rest in my families case. Hospital rides are hard to get and again can leave you rushing to make an appointment and sitting hours to go home often nowhere near food or toilets.

@jannier

Any data to support the idea that pedestrianisation increases crime?

They stopped they didn't run him over pedestrians helped ....issue is what?
Real life example....55 walking home through a pedestrianised town on his own at 10pm mugged by 4 young men ....real life example homeless man beaten in doorway . Realise example woman leaving train station followed by 2 men had to take refuge in mds then wait until mother could find someone to escort her through town centre to reach her 25 year old daughter...could have driven to door before pedestrianisation real life example ambulance delayed because vandalism of folding barriers meant they wouldn't go down could not reach collapsed 80 something in shop. ... they is from 3 local towns.

I passed my driving test at age 18 and bought my first car age 25 because I needed one to get around.

I think the idea is great, but reality is very different.

I lived in several cities, some with a good infrastructure and affordable public transport and others not so much. I owned a bicycle to get around locally and a large backpack for shopping.

Would I want to go back to the good old days ? Absolutely not!

And then there is the cost side of things... I recently went to Sheffield. 2.5 hours by car at a cost of £65.- including park and ride for 2 people... train was over 4 hours (waiting times and changing) and around 80.- pp. And that's without the 40 minutes walk (one way) to the station or the cost of a taxi.

I don't think you're getting much support because in reality it's just not durable. It's not cost or time effective and not everyone is able to drag 3-4 large shopping bags through heat, rain and snow to their front door.

And tough if you brought it before your disability and can't find a buyer at a price that lets you move or a landlord to take you on....or is Eutopia exclusive to the few that can afford a mortgage.?

You sound incredibly anxious. I hope you are ok.

The estate near me that was a made with loads of footpaths and separate car parks is actually really dodgy because of its layout. Lots of dark paths and secluded corners. Blocks of garages are targets for vandalism. It feels very unsafe.

And then there is the cost side of things... I recently went to Sheffield. 2.5 hours by car at a cost of £65.- including park and ride for 2 people... train was over 4 hours (waiting times and changing) and around 80.- pp. And that's without the 40 minutes walk (one way) to the station or the cost of a taxi.

private car useage is heavily subsidised, so it’s going to be cheaper than public transport which is for profit

Why am I anxious? I'm telling you what has happened in the 3 pedestrian towns around me this year ,it's fact, not anxiety. I could tell you of the time I stopped my car for an old lady walking along the pavement in her nighty at 3 pm. The realities are we live in a world where not everything is Rosey we risk access on the basis of where we are. I've happily walked through the red light district in Copenhagen on my own in an evening because I was told by locals it would be safe. Would I walk the Hyde park underground tunnels on my own? no.

@jannier

Nobody in those cars got out to help him.

I think what you're arguing is that people should be inside cars to avoid being victims of crime?

What about those of us (me, that elderly man) who can't drive?

Having cars driving past certainly does not do anything to improve safety for those of us not in a car. Having cars driving past is unlikely to have helped in any of your examples.

This is interesting:

findingspress.org/article/19414-the-impact-of-introducing-a-low-traffic-neighbourhood-on-street-crime-in-waltham-forest-london

Amsterdam, you say. A place in which (over a number of years) society has optimised infrastructure around bikes and pedestrians?! Putting people over machinery??! And it feels safe and nice to walk around?! How crazy!

*copenhagen, but same applies

globaldesigningcities.org/publication/global-street-design-guide/streets/pedestrian-priority-spaces/pedestrian-only-streets/pedestrian-streets-case-study-stroget-copenhagen/

Center Parcs is the antithesis of eco-friendly.

No thanks. I'm not walking 10-15 minutes to and from my car, in the dark and cold, to go to work on long shifts. Not safe for the people or the cars!

Having cars drive past makes witnesses to crimes makes areas busier lonely deserted quiet areas make crimes easier.....many pedestrians do not stop to help ..I guess if you're old and don't look dirty or drunk it is more likely they will but many walk past take photos or stand watching. Society in general says don't get involved nowadays but you are more likely to be attacked or mugged if nobody is around.
Yes it is safer to be a passenger rather than a pedestrian the same as it's safer to lock your door at night and not be sleeping in a doorway. But it's not the car making you unsafe

@QuertyGirl
The problem with the report is it hasn't looked at changes in pedestrian traffic as far as I can see. It's not saying previously 900 people went through the area in an hour that has now increased or decreased...if you have less passersby you have less crime. If people are parking and going into a shop the time they are walking as pedestrians they are obviously at risk of street crime (unlike in a car where it's road accidents) if you scare off pedestrians you will get a reduction of crime but the chances of any one individual being a victim don't go down ..and if it's people loitering looking for a victim your more likely to be one.

As a female who has been repeatedly subjected to stalking/weird men in the past I would be genuinely scared at the idea of having to walk 5-15 mins on my own to get home from work. Particularly as certain shifts involve finishing at 11pm at night (getting home around 11:45pm).

What about aggressive, anti social and dangerous drivers? I encounter far more of those than dangerous people on foot.