To think we could make housing estates like Center Parcs re cars

[QuertyGirl]

The USP of Centre Parcs is for many, the fact that they are mostly car free. Kids can play out and ride their bikes like I did when I was kid.

Can't do that now due to the amount of cars, speed and size of cars and, attitude of some car drivers.

People (including myself) pay a small fortune to holiday at CP.

Why can't we make housing estates more like that?

Communal car parks in walking distance, deliveries by small electric vehicles from a hub (like old fashioned milk floats), exemptions for blue badge holders and funding for electric mobility scooters for those that need them.

Yet, if the council suggests a couple of cycle lane and all hell breaks loose.

Some of the replies to this are so funny to me.

You've suggested some new estates featuring this, and it's unleashed panic like it would be law. I really agree with the sentiment and that we're all too reliant on cars now (me included, a self-confessed lazy cow!)

Would do a lot of people a lot of good to rethink their attitude towards cars (obviously those who are able)

@HadEnough798 Sympathies for your health problems, but I don't think problems like that can't be overcome with some ingenuity. I'd imagine you'd need a wagon of some sort. If there was enough demand, van manufacturers could make vans with built-in slide-out trolley/wagon things. With little motors if the stuff was that heavy. Or tool makers could make tools a bit lighter. It wouldn't happen overnight but necessity is the mother of invention.

So what would happen if this kind of estate were brought in just as an option for people to move to? Would it just be accepted that anybody who became disabled, or even just elderly, would be expected to move away from their home and start afresh?

It could end up being a very transient neighbourhood, with very little in the way of the 'community' atmosphere that comes from people setting down long-term roots.

@WishIwasElsa You have to walk and carry weekly food shops.

This would only be possible if it was actually impossible to drive down those streets. There have been streets built like this, they always cost less to buy than streets with vehicle access.

What has any of that got to do with this thread?

No. It has been covered in OPs post on blue badges. My point was majority of posts in this read ref disabilities read as if cars were the only way people with disabilities were able to travel - entirely untrue and perhaps sad reflection of opportunities offered to people through current infrastructure to date.

This "I don't drive due to disability" it's gatekeeping. She might for eg have epilepsy.

On the space it would take up to have a car park large enough for all residents (especially when many households have more than one vehicle) and parcel hub, you could have a park, play area, green space with trees, skate park, sports pitch etc etc.
Or even a community centre with a youth club. Somewhere teens can feel safe and help prevent antisocial behaviours.

I have a car because it makes my life easier. That includes the convenience of parking outside my house.

No. It has been covered in OPs post on blue badges. My point was majority of posts in this read ref disabilities read as if cars were the only way people with disabilities were able to travel - entirely untrue and perhaps sad reflection of opportunities offered to people through current infrastructure to date.

I assume they could all walk fine.
Although my gran did shop locally when her walking got not so good. But she had small shops very close by. She did not have to walk 20 minutes away.

What am I gatekeeping exactly?

Blue badges exist.

Electric scooters exist (I used one for awhile).

Some people can't drive and currently, we come second to those who do regardless of whether we're disabled or not.

This "I don't drive due to disability" it's gatekeeping. She might for eg have epilepsy.

Yes, I wondered that too. The suggestion that wheelchair users could 'just' pop on and off a mobility scooter at will made me quite suspicious.

Obviously, there is a huge spectrum of disability; no one disabled person can fully know what challenges and difficulties are faced by another disabled person.

This is my house we live on a pedestrianised street with communal car park at the back - it been lovely for my children to play out but a pain in other ways like brining in shopping etc - it also doesn’t stop very fast bikes and dirt bikes flying around so that’s not safe - next house I buy we have going to have a drive and garage as it so much h more particle!

@BradfordGirl so then I have less income as I can't work as many hours as I do currently, that hardly seems like a great idea in the middle of the cost of living crisis! I cannot walk over 2 miles and carry a weeks worth of food shopping for 4 people perhaps you have 8 arms. I actually like to walk when I have the spare time but often I just don't.

Not sure who you are asking

As a non car driver, what are the benefits of this?

i'm going to assume that parking is provided for carers etc and that taxis can drop people off at their door. Also that people with work equipment can load up at their door.

Presumably none of the houses would have driveways or garages so they could cram even more houses into a small area and use the remaining space for parking.

OP, YANBU. A lot of the objections raised here really just amount to "but how can we do that and still allow me to carry on doing things exactly how I've always done them?"

@UsuallySuze Except it is not a new idea, it has been done. It does not work.

I am one of those that does not use their car daily - school drop off is done by foot then public transport to work or wfh. Often pick up small items when walking to school/from work so big food shop done every 2-3 weeks. We have arranged as many activities as possible within walking distance too. I average 15000-20000 steps each day so very active.

However, I would absolutely hate not to be able to bring my car to my driveway when I need to - when I do a big shop with children in tow, it already takes me more than 10 minutes to unload all the heavy items. Children are school age so now go in and play but when younger, they would be strapped into car while I did it as nowhere else to put them. As a woman, when I go out in the evening and come back late, I want to park on my driveway and walk straight into my house - I would not feel safe walking 10 mins from a communal carpark.

And then there is the security of our car - after the house, it is our most expensive asset. Car theft is rife around here - hear of break ins and stolen cars daily on neighbourhood groups. Not a hope in hell I want it to be left out of sight every night where vandals and thieves have access. Our neighbours and us have good quality CCTV which is a reasonable deterrent - I am not relying on public/housing estate CCTV, dread to think what insurance would cost

Ha I literally had this same discussion with my husband a few months ago as I love the vibe of CP.

@WishIwasElsa what you're describing is a lifestyle dependent on car use. That's fine. If society changes to be less dependent on cars, all those things could change. We lived without cars before, we could again.

I would guess you could have delivery services for large items.

The big food shop started with car ownership and large out of town supermarkets. Some people manage without cars, or you might shop more frequently, buying less each time, using shops that are more local.

Currently your kids are dependent on you driving them to get them to school and football practice. It's not inconceivable that a community could be designed so at a certain age kids could cycle or scoot themselves around, or be escorted somehow from school to activities. They don't now because roads are unsafe because of cars. So you need cars because there are cars. Or training might start later to allow walking time instead of driving time between places.

None of it would happen overnight, but it's not impossible, is it? We live in a world designed for cars, we could live in a world designed for people.

It's not for new estates. The op says the above.

Go live on any new estate, you can enjoy a walk to communal parking miles from your house. No thanks, I like my drive and being able to unload my 3 kids and shopping safely at my front door. I just don't have the time for this faff and intentionally bought a house with a drive where our cars can be parked with ease. We aren't fat and get plenty of exercise, we used to run marathons (pre children, we just haven't got time these days) so it isn't the distance or lack of fitness, just the day to day convenience.

I have already explained. Perhaps read my oats?

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