Does anyone here work with challenging young people? Advice needed!

[JMSAD]

Hello. I have name-changed for this, in case it's outing.
I very recently took a job in a high school, working in a base for children who need some time out of class and/or some nurture.
The children can be a challenge but have their lovely points too. I'm struggling with one child who is particularly cheeky, and who thinks it's acceptable to make comments on my age, personal appearance, clothes, personality ... just about everything really!
I realise they'll be testing the boundaries as I'm new. I generally ignore, stay calm, breeze over it. I'd really like to form a positive rapport with the child, but I'm finding it hard. It will take time, I'm sure. I just have to keep reminding myself that they are a troubled and vulnerable young person.
For those who don't work with children like this, telling them off won't work. That's why they're being sent to us in the first place! They are likely to escalate and chances are, won't really care anyway.
But I feel like I need some strategies to help deal with the behaviour. My colleagues seem to be really good at taking it in their stride. I suppose I do outwardly, but I'm struggling a little on the inside. And it does kinda hurt sometimes, as well as being embarrassing when they comment in front of others!
Maybe I'm cut out for this, maybe I'm not. But I'd definitely like to give it a good try.
I'd really appreciate your pointers. Or maybe you know of some good links.
Thanks so much

And if a nurse asked on AIBU how to take blood?

Thanks for the support and constructive comments to those who have offered them. It is really very much appreciated.

One thing we get taught which iis very powerful is to say "good morning, it's good to see you" rather than "how are you?" Which is really just a reflex question, but the honest answer will in most cases will be pretty rubbish.

Also "are you feeling wobbly? " (depending on the situation) means they/you can acknowledge how they're feeling without having to put a name to the emotions.

I agree that 'how are you?' is a bit lame. And will invariably lead to 'fine' as a response

I agree but the reality is that it is getting increasingly difficult to find decent support staff. We are struggling to fill vacancies because most people simply cannot afford to live on a school support staff wage in the current financial climate, and we can't afford to pay them any more. A few years ago competition for these jobs was fierce and we would be in the position of struggling to choose between a number of experienced, well qualified candidates. Now we're so desperate we're having to take on people we know are inexperienced and try to train them on the job, which isn't easy as everyone is so overstretched.

please take on board that it genuinely is not personal. The child may not even remember some of their remarks, it’s just blurted out and can show a measure of their anxiety with a new person.
They may well want to get to know you better but lack the social skills to have conversations which would allow them to do so.
They may be testing you as you are new to their ‘safe haven’.
Acknowledge their remarks but in a down to earth way and move on eg ‘Yes I have got a large nose, I got it from my dad. Now what are we doing here with this work?”
If it’s derogatory about for example, your clothing say “ Oh I really like this, what don’t you like about it? What colours/styles do you like?”
Chances are as they get to know you, the remarks will be fewer and/or they won’t upset your Give it some time and if you are genuinely still feeling ‘got at’ then maybe look to move on.

Oh, and I should add that most of my experience is in the Primary setting. I've worked with some challenging children there and developed extremely positive rapports over time.
It's just the teenagers that will take a little getting used to!

Yes, but that's not the reason we don't use it, it can be triggering unless the purpose of the session is to get to the bottom of how they are. E.g. miss doesn't really care how I am, I'll tell her she's fat. Or if miss had any idea just how rubbllish my life is she wouldn't ask such a stupid question, I'll throw that chair at her.

I have the same sort of thing in a Primary setting. At first I would deflect by saying something like “fat? Well yes, I am, but I just love chocolate cake so much that it’s worth it” and “Ugly? Oh I know, sometimes I wonder why my husband puts up with it” but eventually as I got to know the children more I’d say “That’s not very kind, why do you think that you wanted to say that? Did I do something to upset you?”

After some time (and in some cases, years) the child would open up and tell me that they were angry / sad / tired / pissed off etc. Or they were reacting to something done or said by someone else. I’ve moved sideways now, but still have a number of these children come to me when they are kicking off because I let them be themselves and get it out.

If you get to the stage that you can show that you are hurt, you also need to ‘repair’ as soon as possible after. Don’t let things fester on either side, you need to forgive (even if you don’t really want to) so that you can both move on.

You need to grow a rhino skin. It’s also fine to have a weep in the toilets. The longer you are there the easier it comes.

As for training, the thing that helped me most was Thrive. I work in a Thrive school, but you can sign up as an individual I believe.

Reflective practice- take 10 minutes every evening (driving home was always my time) to think through your day, what happened, what you wanted the outcome to be, how you reacted, what informed your reaction (ie if he’s called you a fat bitch and you were upset- is your weight an issue to you? Do you need to do some work toughening up around that specific issue?), what worked and what didn’t, what you would change next time.

Remember they are individuals and while you may build a brilliant rapport with lots of them, some of them won’t gel with you and that’s ok, just continue to be kind and professional.

Join in with the (usually dark) humour of your colleagues, it’s a great way to decompress.

I work with post 16 care leavers residentially. You have to develop a very thick skin and an unwavering work persona, it takes time.

Also remember, occasionally you get one you can't crack, and that's not your failure.

Am mildly amused by the people on this thread who seem to think that everyone working with vulnerable young people should have a PHD in applied psychology on top of intensive training and decades of experience. That would be lovely! The fact is that it's often low paid work and they'll take anyone who'll give it a go with the right attitude. OP sounds like you're a great person for the job - you are thoughtful, aware of your effect on others, and seeking discussion when you're not confident of your own judgement.

My own tips are:

1. Don't take it personally. It's a job.
2. Be professional.
3. Be honest - "that's not nice. We don't talk to each other like that." and move on.
4. On bad days I imagine I'm in a fly-on-the-wall documentary. Cameras everywhere, and thousands of people watching to see how I handle the situation. Works for me.

I think it's important to be authentic eg if they criticise your shirt, you might say "it's unkind to make a mean comment" or "oh well I'll know not to buy it for your birthday!" Either might be ok, but be true to yourself

All our staff get training in Trauma Perceptive Practice as part of their induction. The Deputy Head delivers it. Yes we take on inexperienced staff and don't pay them very well, but we do train them.

Am mildly amused by the people on this thread who seem to think that everyone working with vulnerable young people should have a PHD in applied psychology on top of intensive training and decades of experience.

yep, that is pretty much exactly what people are saying 🙄. Prone to hyperbole in every day life?

Thank you so much for the kindness. I do care - like, really I do - and that's half the battle, surely.

Try not to think of the insults as being personal, they are honestly not about you, they're just trying to get a reaction. Ignore as much as possible, change the subject, a short joke then moving on can work. "That colour looks awful on you." "I'm an old woman, I'm pretty it's that and not the colour that's the problem. Now, back to...." Or even just letting them get it out of their system and saying "Finished? Now, back to..." And if you feel stressed and this would be allowed, stand up, leave the room, take a few deep breaths and then walk back in as if it never happened and start again.

Good luck.

For those who don't work with children like this, telling them off won't work. That's why they're being sent to us in the first place! They are likely to escalate and chances are, won't really care anyway.

So I do work with these sort of children and I definitely would challenge them.
There's a difference between being confrontational and challenge them to reflect on their behaviour though.

"James that's very rude, please apologise" will get you nowhere.

"I notice you are making a few comments about my appearance... I wonder why."

Said pleasantly and calmly may just get a better reaction.

Working with challenging young people is a balancing act, yes you need to build a rapport with them but you do also need healthy boundaries. They won't respect somebody who routinely lets them walk all over them.

That said, there's a world of difference between a child screaming and insult at the height of their crisis cycle... where challenging them will only worsen or prolong to cycle.

And a child who talks to you in that way even when calm, because nobody has put a boundary in place.

It's tough but worth it. Ask your school for training and for mentoring. Investigate courses for yourself that you would like to go on. Be proactive.

I don’t think that’s fair.

She’s asking for advice on how best to deal with the situation.

Her colleagues were her once upon a time.

You learn through experience.

OP take some of the advice above. Can’t link back, but some good posts, particularly ‘whatmarbles’ post.

Don’t take it to heart (easier said than done, I know some comments can be utterly ruthless) stay professional and I’m sure they’ll get used to you and visa versa.

Can you spend some one on one time with the child and explain why they shouldn't make personal comments to you? It sounds like they are showing off. If they do it again in front of a class I'd just say something like "we don't make personal comments in this classroom, lets get back to Shakespeare (or whatever) now" the worst thing you can do is let it get to you. Obviously if they are really out of line then go down the sanction route.

20 odd years of working with challenging behaviour of various kinds and I would say the key bits of knowledge you would need are adolescent/children’s brain development, restorative practice and trauma informed practice.

key skills are:

• ignoring button pushing behaviour like this. It’s intended to get a reaction and put you on the back foot. It can be driven by various things such as trauma, control, social and communication difficulties. Remember that all behaviour is communication, often for something the young person doesn’t have the words to articulate so it manifests in different ways.

• validation: feeling/being heard, seen and understood will go along way

• building a relationship/rapport. Be interested in them and get to know their interests, what they like to watch on TV, favourite sports players, musicians etc
• being strength focussed with them and when speaking to them…frame things in the positive…say what you do want to see from them rather than what you don’t. Let them know what they can do rather than can’t.

I'm sure you demonstrated some fantastic skills just to get this job and get through the application and interview process. I went from working with SEND to children who have been abused and I felt like such a fish out of water at first. Some of the behaviour seemed shocking at first and now I’m more like your colleagues who have their Teflon coats on and the insults just seem to slide off. Good luck!

Yes humour is an extremely useful tool.

One kid called me a geriatric fucking fat cunt once.

My response?

"I'm not that old I'll have you know" (neither was I fat but you get the idea of not being confrontational)

You have to try and tell yourself that it is absolutely not personal. The more you react the more they will do it. Any attention is good attention for some of these children and they have barriers up that often prevent them from establishing positive relationships, usually because they have been let down badly in the past. They don’t trust adults because that’s what they know. You have to be the positive constant in their lives. Tell them calmly they you don’t like it when they speak like that but try and move on. Find out what their interests are and find some common ground. Good luck.

The challenging kids I work with are younger, but I remember not long after I started a colleague gave me the mantra 'there's a reason they are here'. It helped me to reframe things when things went wrong sometimes - if things were always perfect then they would he in mainstream. And you will learn to not take things personally!

The fact that you actually care is a big factor as well! Good luck, and ignore the idiots on this thread too, it's a tough job at times!

I don’t agree with those saying you’re not in the right job. It takes time to become desensitised to comments made about you. Also takes time to work out what techniques will work, it’s not a one size fits all. I am talking from experience, I wanted to Jack it all in years ago but so glad I didn’t.