Page 8 | Family member shocked I get universal credit

JungleJungle · 2023-01-06T22:40:08+00:00

Had a long conversation with a family member today. I've just started a new job so not sure how much UC I will get this month, but previously was earning about 1800 a month, £950 childcare costs and £950 rent and would get, around £800 in universal credit. They seemed to think that I earn enough money to pay for myself and said nobody on 30k a year should be getting universal credit. They were quite shocked that I was getting anything. Childcare costs and rent come to more than my wage (£1900). I would likely have to give up work if I didn't get universal credit. My outgoings would be more than my incoming. I still struggle even with the £700 I have left after rent and childcare costs. Bills are so high, fuel, food, clothes, emergencies etc. Not sure what I'm looking for from this thread. I work so hard, full time, and never considered that I shouldn't be entitled to universal credit. I'm not being unreasonable am I in thinking that this is what UC is for, am I? Apologies for the slightly waffly post, just feeling a bit shit.

IneedanewTV · 07/01/2023 12:08

Antst · 07/01/2023 11:51

@IneedanewTV, good try but nope. It is not "ageist" to state reality. You may not like that someone is saying it, but that does not actually make you a victim! WE are the victims. Good grief.

Of course it’s ageist . Age is a protected characteristic and you are basically saying that everyone over a certain age has caused your problems. Age, sex, race, disability all protected characteristics. If you say that in an office environment you will be pulled up before HR. You have absolutely no evidence of the age of voters. It’s never been asked as a voting requirement so yes you are talking BS. I’ve never voted Tory in my life.

Danikm151 · 07/01/2023 12:11

A £30k salary 15 years ago would have been amazing now it’s barely enough to scrape by

Antst · 07/01/2023 12:13

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IneedanewTV · 07/01/2023 12:14

Danikm151 · 07/01/2023 12:11

A £30k salary 15 years ago would have been amazing now it’s barely enough to scrape by

Yeah I agree with this. And in local government there have been minimal inflationary pay rises (some years nil) so not only has it not gone up it is worth a lot less.

IneedanewTV · 07/01/2023 12:17

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Never said I was a victim. I just think it is out of order to blame one sector of the population. It’s exactly what the govt wants us to do blame each other instead of looking at the appalling state we are in and protesting about it as one group (but oh yeah I forgot our right to March/strike is also being taken away).

Antst · 07/01/2023 12:22

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Cantbebotheredwithchores · 07/01/2023 12:24

I would be shocked at someone on 30k on universal credits. I earn around that as a nurse and work my shifts as I couldn't afford childcare. So I work the weekends and the days she has her free hours at nursery now she's 3. Prior to this I worked 24 hours due to childcare costs. The main difference I'm married and my husband earns around the same so we share bills and mortgage costs.
You OP have to pay all this yourself, so where does your family expect you to magic the money from? Are they going to provide you with childcare?

dottiedodah · 07/01/2023 12:25

I always find these people who are so "shocked" by the payment of UC ,and so on are fairly well off themselves .They seem upset by "their" tax contributions going to someone who is on lets face it a fairly average wage. 30k a few years ago went a lot further than it does now.COL ,CC and high rents mean it is no longer possible to live without some Govt help.These same people forget they had low cost housing ,meaning many women could afford to stay at home for a few years .One wage would easily cove OG in many cases.I would take no notice OP.I am a fair few years off retirement(mid 50s) I hope when I am there I will be more understanding .

H34th · 07/01/2023 12:32

Suziesz · 06/01/2023 22:56

Why are they wrong for being shocked though? To be honest before mumsnet I never would have assumed someone earning 30k would get something like £800 in benefits. I always assumed it was much lower than that based on rhetoric I had heard about benefits.

Same.

We are two parents, one child on one wage, just under 50k. We have always been very frugal with money, saved for mortgage (for the tiniest house, 20m away from dh job) and make sure we have savings for emergencies. Not sure how affordability tests are carried out to make things fair. As we always live within our means, it sounds like we will never qualify as 'poor', while somebody splashing a bit more with no savings or mortgage will be entitled.
Just my pov, and to help you understand your relative... Of course, if you're entitled you should be claiming.

H34th · 07/01/2023 12:35

(Under 50k before tax - dh is self employed.)

DogBowlsAreMyWeapon · 07/01/2023 12:36

“I’m shocked [at benefit levels] and I work weekend shifts as I can’t afford childcare” claims one half of couple spectacularly missing the point.

@Antst you seem to be suffering some form of existential woe - you hate boomers, you hate young people, you hate benefit claimants. One feels the only person you have any sympathy with is yourself.

Babyroobs · 07/01/2023 12:36

Cantbebotheredwithchores · 07/01/2023 12:24

I would be shocked at someone on 30k on universal credits. I earn around that as a nurse and work my shifts as I couldn't afford childcare. So I work the weekends and the days she has her free hours at nursery now she's 3. Prior to this I worked 24 hours due to childcare costs. The main difference I'm married and my husband earns around the same so we share bills and mortgage costs.
You OP have to pay all this yourself, so where does your family expect you to magic the money from? Are they going to provide you with childcare?

Yes we did this for years when my kids were young. i would work night shifts and weekend around his 9-5. It was exhausting and i missed out so much on weekends with my kids but there was a lot less in terms of help with childcare in those days so you did what you could to survive and keep a career going. I think people get a lot more help these days and all this still nursery paid for an older child whilst mum is on a years mat leave is baffling. Surely there can be a way a place can be held for a child rather than the government paying hundreds in nursery fees whilst the mum is off ? This is tax payers money .

vivainsomnia · 07/01/2023 12:42

UC principles are to support people exactly like you. It's an investment. You are educated and working FT. You couldn't do so without it.

You will working until you are 58 before the gov will step again to offer some support.

During that time, you will rise the ranks, earn more and contribute in taxes whilst not entitled to benefits any longer as your child gets older.

Unless you keep having children and requiring help, you will overall be a positive beneficial party to the economy and gov financial position.

How anyone could anyone berate you is madness. Good luck OP.

lookluv · 07/01/2023 12:51

"The benefits system allowed me to claw my way from poverty and being a teenage parent through my degree and into an established profession without a need to claim anything and owning my own home (all before turning 30- not many people WITHOUT children can claim the same"

Yerawizard - well done but seriously why has the tax payer been responsible for funding your ability to own a property - simply because you had kid? Responsible families - parents in their mid to late 20s don't get a bonus towards property ownership because they ahve a DC

Our benefits system is fundmentally wrong - we have disincentivised work, when people say if I work I lose my benefits but still have the same amount of monies -so what is the point in working we have brought up a generation who think it is better to receive other peoples hard earned cash, rather than work themselves for said monies.

My NDN - single mother 3DCs, 2 fathers, part time job, has more disposable income than I do, who has 2 DCs and a full time job - this is wrong

Her income:
£1200 pcm from 20hr week job
£235 pcm child benefit
£960 pcm other benefits
£1000 towards rent
no council tax or rent ( rent paid by one of the DFs as part of his payment but she claims for it vi benefits aswell
maintenance from 2 fathers £1400 ( I know this is not taken into account but she gets it every month)

£4000pcm towards bills and whatever - sorry the benefits system should not be subsidising this.

Babyroobs · 07/01/2023 12:55

lookluv · 07/01/2023 12:51

"The benefits system allowed me to claw my way from poverty and being a teenage parent through my degree and into an established profession without a need to claim anything and owning my own home (all before turning 30- not many people WITHOUT children can claim the same"

Yerawizard - well done but seriously why has the tax payer been responsible for funding your ability to own a property - simply because you had kid? Responsible families - parents in their mid to late 20s don't get a bonus towards property ownership because they ahve a DC

Our benefits system is fundmentally wrong - we have disincentivised work, when people say if I work I lose my benefits but still have the same amount of monies -so what is the point in working we have brought up a generation who think it is better to receive other peoples hard earned cash, rather than work themselves for said monies.

My NDN - single mother 3DCs, 2 fathers, part time job, has more disposable income than I do, who has 2 DCs and a full time job - this is wrong

Her income:
£1200 pcm from 20hr week job
£235 pcm child benefit
£960 pcm other benefits
£1000 towards rent
no council tax or rent ( rent paid by one of the DFs as part of his payment but she claims for it vi benefits aswell
maintenance from 2 fathers £1400 ( I know this is not taken into account but she gets it every month)

£4000pcm towards bills and whatever - sorry the benefits system should not be subsidising this.

Yes totally shocking that people can be getting £1400 CM a month and it not reduce benefits at all ! Even if it reduced them on a taper it would be fairer. I await people telling me that CM is for the child and not guaranteed etc but for may it is guaranteed income for up to 18 odd years.

anythinginapinch · 07/01/2023 12:59

Thirty years ago I bought a two bed flat for £35k in a shit part of London on my £17k salary. That job is now paying £38k. That flat would sell now for iro 500K. (Sob - I sold it for £75kdecades ago).

A person doing that job - publishing - now is having a financial life unrecognisable to mine. They will be in a shared house renting a room and worrying about bills. It's fucking appalling.
OP I'm so sorry this country is so shit (
I'm a labour voting boomer)

carben · 07/01/2023 13:00

vivainsomnia · 07/01/2023 12:42

UC principles are to support people exactly like you. It's an investment. You are educated and working FT. You couldn't do so without it.

You will working until you are 58 before the gov will step again to offer some support.

During that time, you will rise the ranks, earn more and contribute in taxes whilst not entitled to benefits any longer as your child gets older.

Unless you keep having children and requiring help, you will overall be a positive beneficial party to the economy and gov financial position.

How anyone could anyone berate you is madness. Good luck OP.

Exactly. Word-perfect

carben · 07/01/2023 13:01

Although I think you meant 68....?

IneedanewTV · 07/01/2023 13:03

anythinginapinch · 07/01/2023 12:59

Thirty years ago I bought a two bed flat for £35k in a shit part of London on my £17k salary. That job is now paying £38k. That flat would sell now for iro 500K. (Sob - I sold it for £75kdecades ago).

A person doing that job - publishing - now is having a financial life unrecognisable to mine. They will be in a shared house renting a room and worrying about bills. It's fucking appalling.
OP I'm so sorry this country is so shit (
I'm a labour voting boomer)

Yes I agree with this scenario. It’s appalling.

Notwavingbutsignalling · 07/01/2023 13:09

I know the thread is about UC but in your example about publishing, I wonder if the internet has affected jobs and salaries? Also many more people now going for publishing/arts jobs.

vivainsomnia · 07/01/2023 13:53

Although I think you meant 68....?
Haha, yes sadly!

PixieLaLa · 07/01/2023 23:24

SpringsRightAroundTheCorner · 07/01/2023 00:56

Hmm I have 3 degrees, work ft and by the time I have paid my student loan, tax, ni and into a pension I'm only taking home £400 more than you on nearly 40k. I get 0 help with my costs (I have 3 kids) but I'm married. We live in a cheaper part of the country and saved for many years to buy a house with a large ltv so that the mortgage itself was very manageable.

It's a sad reality that so many people have children in rocky relationships before marriage and real commitment, not owning their own home and so people like us who spend years saving, establishing ourselves end up propping up people who could have done the same, saved, established themselves instead of diving in, having children and then realising actually this person is awful, oops I have children and now can't afford to live. You read it time and time again on here women having kids, unmarried early into a relationship. Piss poor planning I'm afraid. Don't worry though the state will prop you and your kids up and pay your childcare and rent costs, meanwhile we'll pay our own childcare and mortgage. It's annoying for anyone who doesn't expect handouts earning a similar amount.

Marriages do break down of course, a good friend of mine divorced last year, she's on 37k and couldn't get any help. She took over the mortgage and bought her husband out the house, so I'm quite surprised you get that. Her husband pays minimum child maintenance earning 60k, it isn't a lot though, certainly nowhere near your £800 a month. Maybe she shouldn't have got married and bought a house she'd probably be better off now living on a handout topup.

Hmm 3 degrees yet zero compassion…congrats

Forgooodnesssakenow · 07/01/2023 23:40

Antst · 07/01/2023 00:07

Boomers have taken it all. It's because they've consistently voted to pay less tax and to take our council houses at rock-bottom prices and to weaken worker protections that we're in the situation we're in, where so many people can't afford rent and other necessities.

That said, it makes me grind my teeth to read about women who are taking taxpayers' money when the father is not contributing. Why should I pay for your kids when I can't afford to have them?

Men don't magically turn into no-hopers after the baby is born and no one forces people to have children they can't look after. The father should be forced to pay his share--and not the pathetic amount that British men often get away with, but what it actually costs to raise a child. The UK has shocking rates of teen parenthood and of single parenthood. If we didn't pay for it, I bet there are woman out there who would make better decisions when picking the father.

You're literally saying it's the fault of women that some men are shit?

We didn't always support single mothers financially, we just popped them in mother and baby homes then sold their babies to wealthier people, I'm assuming you'd rather we return to that? Or maybe a workhouse situation?

Florenz · 07/01/2023 23:45

Benefits are insane nowadays, rents and house prices are kept artificially high by benefits, if they were based on what people could afford from their earnings, they would be much lower.

Forgooodnesssakenow · 07/01/2023 23:49

Antst · 07/01/2023 07:07

@SpringsRightAroundTheCorner, that's exactly what I'm saying. And of course, I got a parade of replies from people bending over backwards to paint themselves as special snowflakes who aren't in any way responsible for their situations. It's the British way.

Yes, we can have bad luck. There are always going to be people who need help and I think most of us are decent and see it as our duty to help. There are always going to be people left with the kids to support after someone walks out.

But the problem in the UK is that it;s hordes upon hordes of people. Last time I checked (before the pandemic), we have the second-highest single parent rate in Europe, and the only country that beats us is somewhere in eastern Europe where there's a reason--decades of political turmoil and poverty. Our teen parenthood rate is right up there. It's obvious just from going out on the street. It's absolutely shocking.

I'll never be able to afford to buy a house and I've got a PhD from one of the best universities in the world in Engineering. It's simply not possible in my area. I can't have kids. Most people make much less than I do and it's wrong. People should be able to afford a house and a family. But we can't, we know we can't, and yet there's no effort whatsoever to teach kids it's wrong to make everyone else pay for kids they can't afford.

The problem is, there are no consequences for the takers. They have child after child that everyone else has to pay for. The fathers aren't made to pay what it costs. The mothers aren't told that they'll land themselves in poverty and should get qualifications and housing first.

So does my opinion hold weight for you as I did things the 'right' way? University, job, build career, meet husband, buy home, have children, return to work while supporting ourselves etc?

Because as a high earner with a husband who is a high earner I'd sooner live in a country where CHILDREN are supported and not forced to ensure living in poverty because of some moral judgement on their parents than the dystopian frankly American dream you have of morality trumping all.