To be upset about my mum’s attitude to the NHS?

[Beautifulblues]

She’s turning 64 this year and so has benefited from the NHS all of her life.

She came from a fairly poor background, council house, working class, she had to leave school at 16 to get a job as they needed to contribute to the household. She shared a bedroom with her siblings until she was 14, very little in the way of luxuries.

Despite all of that she’s now a staunch conservative and she has said several times recently that she believes the NHS is no longer fit for purpose and we should be looking towards a health insurance system like other countries (she referenced France here but I have no idea of their healthcare system). I’m feeling very angry about it…she’s benefitted this long but doesn’t want me or her 4 year old grandson to benefit from the wonderful NHS as he gets older.

What do you mean?

DH (non medical consultant to the NHS) has always said the Dutch system is the way to go. But still, you do have to pay for some extras, and the UK patient will have to do the same eventually, including, as you say, those elderly who expect EVERYTHING for free, DM, I'm looking at you, never worked, never paid anything into the system (other than VAT etc), wealthy, wouldn't even buy her own basic meds over the counter.

I mean exactly what i have written. It's quite clear. There are too many people who have experienced mistreatment and judgement from the caring profession within the NHS.

Can you be specific?

Specifics Cupid soup:
Nurses having a 'what did you expect attitude' to smokers with health conditions.
Leaving patients in wet beds for prolonged periods before giving assistance.
Putting food and drink on over bed trays at a distance that cannot be reached by patients.
Neglecting to provide meals to every patient.
Mocking mental health patients as if they're not as worthy of medical assistance as others.
Gatekeeping family members at hospital doors.
Losing paperwork between departments thereby delaying care to the patient.
Delaying pain medication.
Chatting about their personal lives at the nurses station instead of working.
Hanging up the phone on professionals as well as relatives seeking updates on patients.
There's a long list. That is as specific as I want to get.
The NHS would have more backing from the public if care to patients were at the forefront of what they do.

Your DM is right Beautifulblues While she (and I) have grown up with the benefit of an NHS that was working it is now very much not the case and health providers in France and Australia, for example, work far better now. I wish my DDs and my grandchildren could benefit as we did but the free NHS as defined 70 years ago can no longer provide cradle-to-the-grave medical help. That is a fact and as an older person who is likely to need medical attention in the future, I am scared.

My partner is French and he has to pay towards his medical care through an insurance scheme which works very well indeed. No waiting weeks for a GP appointment, blood test results within 24 hours etc. indeed, everything we used to be able to take for granted is available to him at minimal cost, but there is a cost to be paid.

I live in Scotland where there are no prescription costs. I think that should be reversed as the NHS is not in a position to suck up that cost.I would also like to see a system for those on long term medications that are available over the counter to be able to be sold in the quantities requireo those who need them.E.g. I take regular paracetamol. i am prescribed 8 caplets a day, a month at a time. If I could go into a Home Bargains or another discount store (or give an exemption certificate to someone else to do so on my behalf) and buy the 224 I need per month, I would happily pay their standard costs, rather than the inflated price the NHS has to pay to fulfill my prescription.

I'm sorry about the lack of formatting. MN have yet another issue they can't be arsed solving

Unfortunately that's just how most boomers are. They only care about their own comfort, living standards and back pockets.

Frankly, it will be a great relief to the planet and the rest of the population once they've been replaced in the seats of power. Only then will we actually be able to start tackling the complete mess of everything they've made (and hopefully it won't be too late).

We should be, and it should only be for the use of u18s, or the employed, or the unemployed with a good excuse, not the rest of the parasites

Why don't you clarify exactly which "parasites" you're referring to?

The ‘wonderful NHS’??
Are you for real? It is falling apart, if it hasn’t already.
I live in one of these countries that your mum is referencing. We can get a GP appointment within an hour, and we get blood test results back that afternoon. Any scans that we may need are done in a timely manner, and there is enough care for everyone.
My family came back to the UK over Christmas, and the main thing that worried me was that one of us should fall ill and be at the mercy of this mess of an NHS.
Please open your eyes. Your mum is right and you are not only being unreasonable, but rather deluded too.

Hmm.. you know, I read the headlines & scare stories, but my experience of the NHS is still pretty good, and I would not myself describe it as failing. My GP practice ranks pretty poorly, locally, yet within the last 2 months, I have been twice able to have a phone consultation (fine by me) on the day of contact, and got in to see a GP within 24 hours of my request.
I also had to go to A & E in Oct. 5 and 1/2 hour wait ( not fun) but in that time I was assessed and got an MRI. I used a taxi to get to A & E. (Possible concussion so I though best not to drive)
I would definitely avoid A & E ATM. When I was there, seeing all of the seriously Ill lined up on trolleys in the corridors was disheartening.
my partner just had a scheduled endoscopy last week, no major delays.
My impression: while they get the job done, there seems to be a culture of obsessive box-ticking, double checking, risk aversion, “when in doubt, delay, avoid, do nothing”. Lots of meetings held, memos written, avoidance of taking responsibility. This is a kind of public sector approach (I have always worked in the private sector) I think it is an ingrained work culture that is hard to break through.
One of the single best reforms would be to charge a notional amount for appointments and consultations. Huge amount £ lost through no shows. This is NOT politically popular!

This!

We need to discuss options for the NHS, including looking at how other countries do it

The current govt don't want a replacement for the NHS, they've had years to look at this and have never even hinted at it.

They want it gone.

Anyone not covered by u18s, employed and contributing or on benefits due to being unable to work and pensioners. Everyone else by definition, migrants or indigenous is a parasite. Clear?

i am quite left wing but free at the point of access healthcare is not the same as 'universal healthcare'. Healthcare is a human right but not necessarily free healthcare. if you need to pay X amount to access healthcare and you can afford it, there is the same outcome. Housing, food and water are just as essential to life but we don't get them for free either. What good responsible governments ensure is that everyone should have access to secure housing, food, water and healthcare. of course things like healthcare and housing are very expensive so need appropriate subsidy from the government; unlike things like food which actually is a relatively small percentage of our incomes (most of the people in food poverty in the UK are in poverty mainly because the housing costs eat up the low earnings rather than the food being too expensive).

What is tricky is designing a system where EVERYONE can access healthcare and income is not a consideration. However, asking someone on a good income to pay £20 for a GP visit and a few hundred quid a year for healthcare insurance (assuming there is no NI or lower NI in the situation) is not something I would be crying about. my DH and I are not rich but we are in the top 8% in terms of household incomes, we do live in London so this does not go far. But I would rather pay that and have a functional healthcare system. the good thing about health insurance is that the hospitals have an incentive to treat people- no treatment = no payment from health insurance company.

What a horrible ageist post.

What's a good enough reason to be unable to work?

physically or mentally incapable due to a
medical condition aside from idleitus

Hmmm sadly I agree with you. There seems to be more and more and more ‘acceptable’ reasons for people to be out of work now. Most of them MH issues. Which (by all means shoot me down) I don’t see as a reason to be out of work unless actually insane.

And who decides capability?

I personally wouldn’t want the Dutch system, because I don’t think I could afford it. I lived in the Netherlands from the ages of 19-21 and I’m embarrassed to admit that I never had health insurance. (And I knew other people who didn’t). I did work, but didn’t earn much.

An Englishman I knew (and his Dutch partner) moved from NL to the UK temporarily for her to give birth on the NHS. They said a hospital birth in the Netherlands would have cost them €3,000 (and this was more than ten years ago).

Their behaviour annoyed me, although to be fair, I never liked him anyway.

An Englishman I knew (and his Dutch partner) moved from NL to the UK temporarily for her to give birth on the NHS. They said a hospital birth in the Netherlands would have cost them €3,000 (and this was more than ten years ago).

I know a bloke with a Canadian girlfriend, they met in Canada before travelling to India to work together where she got pregnant. For whatever reason they decided they wanted to move to the U.K. and were stunned/angry that the NHS billed them for her maternity care and delivery. His point was the baby was his and therefore British and they shouldn’t have to pay 🤷🏼‍♀️

Same as how it’s done now to assess benefit claimants of that type.

At the hospital are you on benefits - yes, are you disabled or signed off for some medical reason? No. In that case clear off