To be upset about my mum’s attitude to the NHS?

[Beautifulblues]

She’s turning 64 this year and so has benefited from the NHS all of her life.

She came from a fairly poor background, council house, working class, she had to leave school at 16 to get a job as they needed to contribute to the household. She shared a bedroom with her siblings until she was 14, very little in the way of luxuries.

Despite all of that she’s now a staunch conservative and she has said several times recently that she believes the NHS is no longer fit for purpose and we should be looking towards a health insurance system like other countries (she referenced France here but I have no idea of their healthcare system). I’m feeling very angry about it…she’s benefitted this long but doesn’t want me or her 4 year old grandson to benefit from the wonderful NHS as he gets older.

At the hospital are you on benefits - yes, are you disabled or signed off for some medical reason? No. In that case clear off

What would happen to them?

I mean... he has compound fracture... not life threatening but without treatment he will probably die of infection.

She is pregnant, about to give birth, raped, first timer, terrified.. You would threw her out onto the streets.

This runs in with the "Tories want rid of the NHS" belief.

I ve lived in countries with no or little health service, its really not nice and they attract little decent foreign investment, good companies like civilisation.

So you support and trust in the current welfare assessment process?

So who exactly do you think are these "parasites" and how are they being financially supported?

So ... let them die?

Was this before they changed the system in 2006? Because you can get huge fines if you are not insured! Lower incomes get subsidised (lower income is up to 38k if single, 48k if a couple).

Hospital births are free if you have a medical need (if midwife recommends or if you want painkillers you can't have at home), otherwise it's something like 600 euros. You get a maternity nurse for a week at home to take care of you and baby.

They chose not to pay for their medical care expecting everyone else to

I replied at 18.31 to that question.

So under your idea the Tories new system the charitable sector would, where available, step in?

I'd perhaps think through your ideas to their conclusion and then come back?

I lived there from 2001-2003. I can’t remember exactly when the Dutch/English couple came the UK, but it was way before Brexit.

Yes, I was stupid not to have health insurance. I didn’t know how long I was going to stay in NL, so it was easy to let it drift. When I was an agency worker, I once got fined €80 by an organisation called Uw GAK for not sending back the sickness absence form they sent me. I never really knew who they were and how I became beholden to them.

Lazy. Give me some definitions.

So SAHP get told to clear off?

But they are , NHS is a badly managed business, not a surprise is struggling when the bosses are paying themselves thousands of hundreds of pounds in bonuses etc they have salaries of 300k plus over 100k in bonuses , that costs the tax payer over 300mil a year . People need to start taking some responsibility for they actions and not throw everything at the government door

Yes this still happens.

So your mum references the French system, that you admit you don’t even know about, yet feel she’s wrong in her opinion…

@Cuppasoupmonster so you dont like people being out of work but you also expect an army of family carers to be available at short notice.

It's just a comment. And an uneducated one as I'm sure she doesn't know about healthcare in other countries. She's repeating something she heard/read. I would ignore tbh

Well OP sounds just as uneducated since she's angry that her mum suggested a healthcare system OP knows nothing about. How does she even know it's anger worthy?

@pompei8309 but it's the government that are kings of appointing £250k management consultant types into quangos. Thing is to someone like Johnson who said £250k a year was chickenfeed, it may well not sound that much! It was never his cash or his businesses cash -it's very easy to dole out public cash when it doesn't affect you personally

If this is even a real post (which I suspect it isint) then YABVU and in fact being a complete idiot.

The NHS is not fit for purpose. As a nurse who has worked in the NHS and also in overseas health systems that are part public and part private, I can assure you that the French system is one of the best in the world and puts the NHS to shame.

Don't really see why it can't be genuine?

Besides, any health system can only be as good as its funding.

The NHS may well be all the things you and others say but without a good high quality and well paid Social Care sector, the NHS in whatever for, cannot function, the UK, for whatever reason, has chosen to treat SC workers scum, you'll earn more stacking shelves or cleaning toilettes.

The NHS historically gets around 4% of GDP, France gets around 6%, their tax burden is 43%, the UK's is 38%.

This fundamentally why France has a better health service.

What wonderful NHS? I’m with your mum on this.

This is one of the best threads I’ve ever read. The recognition that it’s not working and genuine consideration to other alternatives without political blame is so refreshing

And the understanding by most that for it to get better it needs more money. None of the alternatives suggested are cheaper for the country. I'm happy with that but is everybody?

I am interested in the comments about the Dutch system. A modest contribution from all regardless of health or age and free for the poorest.
In a way some of that's what we already have here except that we don't see it. Everyone pays tax unless on the lowest of incomes and the tax pays for the healthcare.
I am starting to think that some kind of tax or charge might be part of the way forward. Problem is it doesn't address organisational failures and waste and it doesn't tackle one of the biggest obstacles which is social care.

@raffegiraffe This is exactly the problem. I am also happy to pay more. The data from countries with better health care and outcomes show that those who can afford to, need to. But the country does not seem to have the will to do so. Of course the extra money must be well spent and perhaps at this point there is no trust that either of the main political parties would spend it wisely

Thats not strictly true.

Its is Government that will not tax the people who can afford to pay more, indeed, its the opposite, they give them the cash the health service needs.

E.g 12m Pensioners, regardless of wealth, get a 10% pensions increase, the Nurses (& total nhs 1.1m staff) are offered 4%.

Universal energy support to millions who do not need it.

Unless retention and getting more staff in place is sorted, everything else will fail and even more needed in social care.

This is what is so disappointing with Labour & Starmer, yes they say they will increase staff but unless they pay more, they will not be able to do this or stop HCP's leaving for better paid work either in the public or private sectors.

However, you can't really criticise Labour on what they would spend monies on, they have not been in power for 13 years.