To tell you the NHS is a frightening failure for children?

[redorbreak]

I suppose when we read headlines it's A&E waiting times and often focused on adults

But I'm here to give a personal account of how dangerous it is for children, something we haven't shone the light on as much as adult care and waiting times being horrible right now.

DD was born very prematurely and she had some awful breathing this morning, which then worsened into sucking in a lot at the rib cage (not that unusual for her but it seemed worse than usual). She couldn't stay awake much

I knew an ambulance would take a long time and needed the car, so I was going to drive her myself. I went to put her into her car seat and she went floppy, like a rag doll. Limp and floppy. I screamed and luckily H was there who phoned an ambulance

I explained calmly but seriously on the phone what was going on. The phone operator said 5 hour wait. I said please, she's gone floppy. Please help us. She said sorry, but 5 hour wait times. Can I take her myself?

I explained I could take her myself but I wouldn't be able to see if she was okay or not? I'd be driving. She said that was safer than waiting for an ambulance

I put the phone down and took her in, frightened, petrified for her life. I got there after 25 minutes and rushed to her. She was still not responding. She was triaged straight away. Her Sats were sitting at 69/70.

She is currently in PICU (intensive care) and I don't know when she will wake up. Nobody seems to be straight with me. I'm not getting a clear picture here. My H is on his way up now and hopefully they will tell me straight what this means for her now

The NHS is fucked.

But statistically who has the most life years to lose; a baby or a 90 year old? It’s just common sense. If the situation became so extreme that they had to prioritise me (early 30s) or a baby, I would expect the baby to be prioritised. It’s not nice or pleasant, but if OP’s post hasn’t shown you the desperate times we are in then I don’t know what will.

All these saying it should be clinical need as priority only, obviously this is true but I just can't get my head around the fact that a bunch of cat 1 - obviously highest need - why isn't a baby the highest of those? Young children can deteriorate so fast. Medics always say that. An adult or a baby if the same illness, honestly I really would have thought baby first.
And that isn't a judgement of worth.

That is terrifying OP. Dh drove out floppy and unresponsive 12 year old to hospital recently because we thought it would be a lot quicker than an ambulance. I've been there watching over a poorly unconscious child in both nicu and hdu. Posting on mumsnet/facebook or watching rubbish on tv helps and don't let anyone make you feel guilty for not just sitting there staring at your child 24/7. Really hope your little one gets better soon.

And I disagree. If one can place value of a person by youth alone then why not occupation. Someone working as a surgeon or scientist vs someone unable to work?

Does it make more sense to society to pick a fit healthy adult vs a child who is likely to have life long complications? It also isn’t as clear cut as a 90 year old vs a baby but a 30 year old vs a baby, a 20 year old vs a baby. Babies vs babies. It isn’t an easy choice and there are many factors.

I think it's only a matter of time before neighbourhoods set up their own 'hospital transport helps', where there's a list of people able to take someone in a neighbourhood to hospital.

Of course this doesn't help with situations involving fractures/ spinal injuries etc. But needs must.

OP wishing yoyr child a speedy recovery

You might also have young children and teenagers in need too, perhaps with underlying conditions. It is so hard to say.

Because 999 don’t have time to grill people on their occupation before sending an ambulance so you don’t need to worry about that.

All I can think of is when I was sat in our GP surgery and a Dad came running in to reception screaming help, like you, and a floppy child.

It was horrific.

That child had an immediate GP and nurse caring for her and within 10 minutes the doctors car park was cleared and an air ambulance was landing.

This was about 10 years ago.

But who is going to look after these unwell people once they are in the hospital as the hospital staff are looking after the ones in beds there’s no one to look after anyone stacked in the corridor.
If you are left in a corridor in a&e (I once was when my eldest was blue lighted to hospital) you are just left, someone will check the patients obs every 10 mins but that’s it until there’s space.
In rural areas it’s normal to have long waits for an ambulance of upto an hour for a cat 1 call. They’ll send the nearest ambulance but often a long way away.

If you are left in a corridor in a&e (I once was when my eldest was blue lighted to hospital) you are just left, someone will check the patients obs every 10 mins but that’s it until there’s space

But horrific as this is -and it must have been terrifying for you at the time I'm so sorry. Its still a better situation to be in than no medical assistance OF ANY KIND. Someone is coming round every 10 minutes or so to check and if the patient has someone with them, say a parent, then at least they can keep watch and scream for help if anything changes and people who know what to do can come running. There's not much you can do if something changes with your child while you're driving 15 over the speed limit in a blind panic on the way to the hospital

As a clinician, a baby with respiratory problems who is floppy and unresponsive is a cat 1 and would absolutely be number 1 priority over anyone else other than cardiac arrest. Baby's and young children can deteriorate so quickly, this is why. I work in A&E, have just got home from my shift, I am pretty gobsmacked and appalled that it was a 5 hr wait. I really hope your baby gets better very soon OP.

It's terrifying OP. I had to call 111 for DD yesterday. Nothing apparently urgent but she's had a virus for 10 days now and was starting to get headaches and feeling dizzy. Because she has a neurological condition I was a bit concerned. It took them 9 hours to call me back.

As others have said it depends on the area. In the meantime I managed to get a GP appointment (our surgery has been very good about face to face appointments when you need them). I tried to phone 111 to cancel the call back but couldn't get through.

When they eventually called back the guy was so apologetic and I felt really sorry for him.

rishi wants to talk about maths though. God it makes me angry.

Thinking of you OP 💐.

No but if they could would it be justified? What if they used an underlying condition or disability as a way to deem a person less worthy?

And like I said before it is hardly a 90yo vs baby but many other age groups and scenarios. They have ways to assess and triage now - they just need to funding and resources to do it or we all suffer as a nation. I don’t think saying “always choose the baby” no matter on the chance of saving them or the other person (which could be a child) if the best approach.

I think children's lives are worth more than old people's lives as well.
If I had to choose between my 85 year old mother or my 11 year old daughter, it's an absolute no brainer for me who I'd choose. If that makes me a terrible immoral person in your eyes, well ho hum. But, there should be provision for both. In situations where provision can't be increased, organ donation for example, assuming normal life expectancy, absolutely young people should get priority .

I agree children should be given priority over a 90 year old having a cardiac arrest.

OP I am so sorry to read this, and share the disbelief of other posters that the country is in this state and that we are being left without adequate care for our children. It is so frightening. I hope your baby is soon on the mend and that you can get some rest. You have been so strong for your daughter today. I've been in a similar position and one day you will look back and won't believe that you made it through, but you will!

@Goosefatroasts

Totally agree with you

Hope babys ok OP.
It's so, so sad to watch the really terrible decline in our country.
I had a Ukrainian staying with me, she was shocked at the state of the country and our health service and I was ashamed of what we've become.

They might not of been the only callers with floppy, unresponsive babies.
multiple vehicle RTC….

OP I hope your little one makes a speedy recovery and I’m glad you were able to get her there.

@redorbreak Oh, OP, i'm so sorry to hear this. I hope your little one makes a strong and speedy recovery.

My DD was born in the summer of 2021 - she was growth restricted and then in NICU for two weeks with sepsis. One day after coming home at 2 weeks old she had a BRUE and also went all limp and floppy in the middle of the night then stopped breathing. We were on hold for what felt like an age before we even got through to control to request an ambulance. We were madly trying to book an uber as we don't have a car but because it was the night of the Euros semi final there were literally noone to be found. It was horrible. Luckily the ambulance came fairly quickly once we got through to control, but i will never forget how awful it was thinking i was going to have to do CPR without being able to request an ambulance. It's shocking that you had to drive yourself.

@georgarina i haven't RTFT, but in case noone else has mentioned, after our experience above, i did a baby first aid course through a company called Daisy First Aid. You can do them before your baby is born as well as after. I really recommend them as i feel like i could cope a lot better with any emergency incidents now.

And where would the ambulance crew then put that patient? The stretcher they are on would he needed for the next patient the ambulance go to. And the crew cannot simply leave the patient without handing them over to anyone, that's what they are waiting to do.

I am so sorry op and have everything crossed for you both.

5hrs for cat one is shocking. do you live very rurally? Not that that excuses it but in some very rural areas even in “good” times the cat 1 response will be measured in hours as it simply takes that long to get there (unless it’s the air ambulance but there are not enough of them) however if you are rural I am surprised that they couldn’t dispatch a first responder - rural areas often have a great local network of these….

Oh OP, this is terrifying. I'm so sorry for you and your family, it's mind blowing that this is the state of the NHS (thanks tories).

I had to call 999 for my choking and turning blue 8 month old a few weeks ago. It was minutes to even get connected. That scared me. We had a paramedic arrive but it still took about 15 minutes in total. His SATs monitor didn't work. The actual ambulance took a further 10/15 minutes and was pulled off another cat 1 call (cardiac arrest) to attend to us. That thought haunts me. The 999 operator gave incorrect advice (confirmed by A&E paediatrician). I've made a complaint, which I feel so bloody guilty about because it feels like putting the boot in. But I know it's the right thing to do in the long run.

Thankfully my DD was okay. But I live in near permanent fear of needing an ambulance for her. I've stopped having a glass of wine in the evening so I can drive, if needs be. She'll be staying in our room much longer than planned originally (it was a night time choking incident). I've spent £300 on an owlet smart sock 3 so I can monitor her and have an alarm if her heart rate or sats are off. It's bonkers.

Best wishes to your lo for a speedy recovery and please also try to look after yourself. 💛

I live in another country and I'm horrified by what I'm reading about the state of the health system in the UK. I can get a GP appointment today if I need to. At several different clinics, and at all different times of the day. I can also access telephone appointments, and an online prescription service (with a video consult). After hours, I can ring for a visiting GP who brings a range of medications so if I need antibiotics they can give me my first dose then I get a script filled the next day. I have private health insurance, but can use the public system free of charge as well (if I had cancer I'd go private, if I had a head injury I'd go public and then follow up with private therapy). I took DS to hospital for an x-ray of a suspected broken arm recently, in and out within 90 minutes and my GP called to follow up yesterday, video consult booked for next week as we're away on holidays.

Our system isn't infallible and we do have ambulance ramping at times, but an urgent call like yours would have received an ambulance in minutes. I don't know where you start fixing a problem like the NHS but something has to be done.