To think we cannot afford to support Ukraine anymore

[Saysomething1234]

This may be an unpopular opinion but it is annoying me to no end and NC

We have a littany of issues crying out for funding domestically - NHS broken. Economy going down the drain. Pound down 20% in one year. Public services collapsing, Education system requiring re-investment, high taxes driving talent out. We can keep blaming our politicians but someone needs to prioritise where money goes - and no one is willing to talk about this

Yet we are spending hundreds of billions in supporting Ukraine in a war which has nothing to do with us. Yes we are morally supporting them but is there no amount which will be too much? We are paying both directly (through weapons and aid) and indirectly (through huge energy subsidies - last totalling north of £200bn) - we need to stop this spending, reduce energy prices, stop this craziness

How is this war something we can afford on the basis on principles and why aren't we more aggressively pushing for a negotiated settlement?

We cannot afford this. It sucks for Ukrainians but this is not UK's bill to foot.

AIBU?

There's no resources in Afghanistan of course not.

We can't afford not to. If Putin is not stopped he will go for another country next, maybe Moldova.

You are being massively disingenuous by suggesting that the energy subsidies are part of a financial support package for Ukraine. Which is why I, and many other posters, think you're posting from a Russian bot farm.

The UK has committed £2.3 billion in military aid to Ukraine. Not "hundreds of billions".

Even if we stopped providing financial support tomorrow, the government would still have to provide energy subsidies to prevent economic and social meltdown. So get out of here with your Russian propaganda.

I think our support has been as strong as it has been partly because of the US position, and also because of Boris Johnson's need last year to appear the hero, or allied to one. I think we can't afford to contribute as much as we do currently, whilst people are dying here. It's right to contribute, but we need to remember that it isn't in fact our war. People talk as though it is. I'm happy to contribute, but if someone in my family couldn't eat or get care because of the money spent on foreign aid there, i admit I wouldn't be happy.

Let me guess how you voted in the EU referendum, op...

I agree with thise who’ve said that we can’t afford not to. The alternative is world, and possibly nuclear war. You are not wrong about the hardships we’re facing and the sacrifices we’re making for Ukraine but they’re nothing compared to what will happen if we don’t do all we can to help the Ukrainians fight Russia off on their own soil.

And there’s no such thing as a trustworthy negotiated settlement with Russia.

Russia has invaded a sovereign country for no reason. Ok not a NATO country but still a very important one that produces a lot of exports to Europeans beyond, not to mention the loss of life for no reason than someone thinks they can invade

are you really saying it’s ok that one country to invade another for no reason and we do nothing? Have you learnt nothing from the world wars as to what could happen( assuming they are not nuts enough to use nukes)

of course we should stop it before it goes further. Or are you actually saying the Ukrainians should roll over to the mad man? He wouldn’t stop there though once he won he will carry on..

its a much bigger picture than leaving them to it. Google it

Wow. Just imagine it was your country that had been invaded. Would you not think it was just and right that other countries stepped in?

Even from a purely pragmatic point of view if the world tolerates this, what next?

Maybe countries on the same continent ahould be asked that questions too...

OP, your opinions are disgraceful. You need to educate yourself, as so many here are trying to help you to do.

So you would rather watch woman and children get bombed to death in their sleep than pay more for gas!

No we shouldn't stop supporting them, nothing is more important than freedom and security. Once Russia is pushed back (China we need you on this one) we will have to invest in rebuilding the country aswell.

Just a side note gas and petrol prices are already falling.

second order effects causing costs are still costs. surely this is bloody obvious

I am in south london. not russia. pl dont be daft.

Interesting how we never made this much effort for the brown countries

Yawn.

I disagree mainly because there doesn't seme to be any clear opinions except "they are doing it wrong"

IAmTheWalrus80
You’re very naive if you think our involvement in this war is altruistic.

can you pl elaborate. i'm interested in understanding this perspective"

Many people on this thread (including me in my earlier post that you quoted) have explained this. If Putin succeeds in Ukraine that will be the start of a newly invigorated Russian expansionism - towards Western Europe. That will have huge impacts on energy, food and goods supplies and consequently our way of life. Not to mention the use of U.K. soldiers if nato is breached.

www.csis.org/analysis/united-states-aid-ukraine-investment-whose-benefits-greatly-exceed-its-cost

This is from the US perspective but is relevant to us too on a smaller scale. Basically giving Ukraine weapons is a bargain as they are degrading the ability of Russia to fight a European war.

America has now destroyed half the Russian army by giving 5% of its annual defence budget to Ukraine.

I don’t think we can afford not to. What is it they say about those who forget the past being condemned to repeat it? Turning a blind eye to this on what in reality is our doorstep is madness.

in the words of Martin Niemoller:
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—

Because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—

Because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—

Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

swap out for Crimea, Ukraine and what next? Poland? That lunatic needs to be stopped, not just for Ukraine but for all of us.

One of the major lessons of WWII is not to dither when an invader starts invading. Do we let Putin take Ukraine then Belarus then where? We allow the oligarchs to launder their money here in the UK but need to keep Russia to its borders and not threaten the rest of Europe. Can we afford not to help ?

We are at war with Russia in all but name. That is why food and energy prices are so high. The figures you quoted are about subsidising these price rises not the actual cost of helping the war effort in Ukraine. These price issues would exist even if we had never supported the Ukraine.
The destabilisation of the Western European economy has been Putins aim for many years. He has cleverly infiltrated Western Europe and now seeks to capitalise on that economic stranglehold by grabbing territory.
At least I have energy and food to worry about paying for. And a DH and teen DS s not being trained in warfare.
It's short-sighted to think our economic issues are because we are supporting Ukraine. The inflation issues are because Russia invaded Ukraine.

Yabu if you think we can afford not to support Ukraine! As others have said we aren’t just doing this for Ukraine.

But the money comes out of the defence budget, not the social care or NHS budget.

In hard power terms (military power) the UK is the world's 2nd most powerful nation with the US at the top.

They can afford the weapons.

My god the lads go on training exercises in the middle east and shoot £30,000 javelins, in training! Never mind actual war.

There’s loads of Russians in South London. You’re sounding more dim (Russian bot) with every post.

Costs we would have to bear regardless due to the global nature of energy markets. Which is not how you presented your dishonest original comment. Now who is being daft?

Agreed.

Many predicted NATO expansionism would lead to war.

Strobe Talbott, deputy secretary of state, similarly described the Russian attitude. “Many Russians see Nato as a vestige of the cold war, inherently directed against their country. They point out that they have disbanded the Warsaw Pact, their military alliance, and ask why the west should not do the same.” It was an excellent question, and neither the Clinton administration nor its successors provided even a remotely convincing answer.

George Kennan, the intellectual father of America’s containment policy during the cold war, perceptively warned in a May 1998 New York Times interview about what the Senate’s ratification of Nato’s first round of expansion would set in motion. “I think it is the beginning of a new cold war,” Kennan stated. ”I think the Russians will gradually react quite adversely and it will affect their policies. I think it is a tragic mistake. There was no reason for this whatsoever. No one was threatening anybody else.”

He was right, but US and Nato leaders proceeded with new rounds of expansion, including the provocative step of adding the three Baltic republics. Those countries not only had been part of the Soviet Union, but they had also been part of Russia’s empire during the Czarist era. That wave of expansion now had Nato perched on the border of the Russian Federation.

Moscow’s patience with Nato’s ever more intrusive behavior was wearing thin. The last reasonably friendly warning from Russia that the alliance needed to back off came in March 2007, when Putin addressed the annual Munich security conference. “Nato has put its frontline forces on our borders,” Putin complained. Nato expansion “represents a serious provocation that reduces the level of mutual trust. And we have the right to ask: against whom is this expansion intended? And what happened to the assurances our western partners made after the dissolution of the Warsaw Pact?”

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/28/nato-expansion-war-russia-ukraine

Russia’s invasion is wrong, but the West deliberately broke its promises and continually pushed Russia’s buttons and here we are.