To think we cannot afford to support Ukraine anymore

[Saysomething1234]

This may be an unpopular opinion but it is annoying me to no end and NC

We have a littany of issues crying out for funding domestically - NHS broken. Economy going down the drain. Pound down 20% in one year. Public services collapsing, Education system requiring re-investment, high taxes driving talent out. We can keep blaming our politicians but someone needs to prioritise where money goes - and no one is willing to talk about this

Yet we are spending hundreds of billions in supporting Ukraine in a war which has nothing to do with us. Yes we are morally supporting them but is there no amount which will be too much? We are paying both directly (through weapons and aid) and indirectly (through huge energy subsidies - last totalling north of £200bn) - we need to stop this spending, reduce energy prices, stop this craziness

How is this war something we can afford on the basis on principles and why aren't we more aggressively pushing for a negotiated settlement?

We cannot afford this. It sucks for Ukrainians but this is not UK's bill to foot.

AIBU?

There's a difference between 'everything which is terrible in the world' and 'something that could end up on our doorstep'.

I bet you'd feel a bit differently if you were at risk of having to pick up a gun and head into the fray, like our men may be if Putin is not contained within Ukraine.

In the unlikely event that China/Iran/etc, got involved the results could be disastrous. Same if the Russians resort to a nucleur attack - can't see the NHS coping very well tbh!

Well said. OP needs to educate themselves pronto!

YABU

read a history book and find out how well it goes when a blind eye is turned to psychos nicking other people’s countries

I'm all for helping refugees but I agree that we shouldn't be committing money we haven't got to Ukraine, beyond the humanitarian aid.
Our own country is coming apart at the seams. It would be lovely if we were able to right injustice throughout the world but this requires all countries that value human rights, to behave as one cohesive unit and it also requires many more resources than the UK currently has available.
The EU countries seem very quiet compared to the UK on Ukraine - I wonder why.

You're right in that our economy and public services are shite OP. But that is the Tories' fault, not Ukraine's. It's the tories who have managed our country for the last 12 years are our domestic problems are of their making.

In my opinion, its not that we can't afford to support Ukraine, it's that we can't afford not to. The prospect of Putin being allowed to plough his Armed Forces through Eastern Europe unchecked is an unimaginable one in terms of our own security and that our neighbours and allies.

That's my opinion, anyway.

edition.cnn.com/2022/09/08/business/liz-truss-energy-price-cap-europe/index.html

£150b uk + £350b europe

YABU just for saying something as egregiously glib as 'it sucks for Ukraine'. Are you seeing the same news reports? It 'sucks' to have to cancel a holiday because of a rail strike, not because your hometown has been razed to the ground.

The residents of Crimea voted overwhelmingly to become part of Russia.

And yes OP, this war could be stopped with diplomacy but as you can see, the Ukraine issue is viewed with emotion rather than logic.

We can’t afford not to support Ukraine.

Do you not understand that the gas prices are going up, not because the Uk are not buying Russian gas, but because Europe, US, et al are not buying the gas/oil.

They tried to appease Hitler to save the UK from war/war costs- it never works. Putin is facing a shattered economy and the Russian people a totalitarian state. The only way Putin can survive is to continue to expand his glorious “motherland”.

after Ukraine, how about E Germany? Poland? Hungary? After all they were once part of the old Russian empire.

if Eastern Europe start to fall, the cost to the UK will be far more than increased gas bills and food going up - the UK will then be committed to putting soldiers on the ground. UK soldiers will die. Oh and our current prices will seem cheap. Or… we can accept the financial costs of supporting Ukraine.

We can’t afford not to support Ukraine

Absolutely this.

The UK aren’t supporting Ukraine because something ‘terrible’ has happened. Yes there is humanitarian support, but also military support.

The UK have a vested interest in making sure Russia doesn’t take Ukraine. Global politics is complex and western countries interests are intertwined. It’s silly to think that the UK’s obligations and interests are confined to fighting on the soil of a NATO country.

As a pp has said, this is a proxy war. It’s a war against Russia, being fought in Ukraine.

Re stopped with diplomacy- how?

Uk isn't even the highest contributor and what do you mean the EU countries seem quiet compared to UK?

Saysomething1234 as a uk taxpayer your best bet is to help Ukraine as much as possible with weapons. That way they will win quickly and food and energy prices will fall again. Russia will be contained and Xi will be discouraged.

Alternatives are that the war drags on for years (because Ukraine and the Eastern Europeans won't give up just because we do) or in the worst case scenario Russia wins. They could then move on the Baltic states or Poland later dragging us into an expensive and deadly confrontation. Or Xi might be encouraged to invade Taiwan causing yet more disruption to the world economy and danger.

Not today, Putin.

Please learn to accept differing views. your inability to discuss something and resort to asking me to leave the UK only shows your inability to process differing opinions.

should everyone who disagrees with this uk spending on the war leave? all of us should be stripped of British citizenship?

ffs

Can we afford not to?

Read about Hitler and appeasement and how well that worked out for the whole of Europe…And could you enlighten us on the logic of energy prices going down if we stop supporting Ukraine? Will the gas start flowing again? Or are you actually suggesting making up with Putin?

What are our capabilities to defend against intercontinental ballistic missile attack? Does our systems in place have the capability to shoot down an ICBM?

Stuart Ray, senior analyst at McKenzie Intelligence:

There is no real credible capability to shoot down an incoming intercontinental ballistic missile. No nation really has a credible capability in this respect.

Whilst anti-ballistic missile technology exists, current technological advances do not stretch to a capable system to protect against even a limited ICBM attack.

YANBU.

Interesting how we never made this much effort for the brown countries

Ah, you are referencing the indirect cost of the war, rather than our military cost. My mistake.

in which case - doesn’t matter. if we ended our support to Ukraine tomorrow, we would still be in an energy crisis as the price hikes are here to stay.

It's also about the global stage , China will be watching this conflict with interest. If the invasion had gone well and the west appeased what's the bet china would quickly invade Taiwan ? It's about trade , Ukraine isn't Afghanistan it has lots of resources ones which Russia wouldn't be keen to sell to us. This is a proxy war between west Vs east.

I think it's widely accepted now that letting Putin take Crimea was a mistake. It didn't pacify him, it just allowed him to think Europe and the US would let him take further action.

And now here we are.

Like others have said, I don't think we can afford NOT to intervene in Ukraine. It's not about the short term bills but the long term danger of allowing Putin to expand his territory and take resources. The idea of a negotiated settlement is bloody terrible tbh. What's bits of Ukraine do you think are acceptable for Russia to take?

It was not a legal referendum.

Apologies if this has been posted already...Jens Stoltenberg speaking from the heart a few days ago:

twitter.com/nato/status/1548994505118031873?lang=en

Closing comment:

"The price we pay as the EU, as #NATO, is the price we can measure in currency, in money. The price they pay is measured in lives lost every day. So, we should stop complaining and step up and provide support, full stop.❞

Hope that helps the OP.