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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think we cannot afford to support Ukraine anymore

905 replies

Saysomething1234 · 04/01/2023 21:38

This may be an unpopular opinion but it is annoying me to no end and NC

We have a littany of issues crying out for funding domestically - NHS broken. Economy going down the drain. Pound down 20% in one year. Public services collapsing, Education system requiring re-investment, high taxes driving talent out. We can keep blaming our politicians but someone needs to prioritise where money goes - and no one is willing to talk about this

Yet we are spending hundreds of billions in supporting Ukraine in a war which has nothing to do with us. Yes we are morally supporting them but is there no amount which will be too much? We are paying both directly (through weapons and aid) and indirectly (through huge energy subsidies - last totalling north of £200bn) - we need to stop this spending, reduce energy prices, stop this craziness

How is this war something we can afford on the basis on principles and why aren't we more aggressively pushing for a negotiated settlement?

We cannot afford this. It sucks for Ukrainians but this is not UK's bill to foot.

AIBU?

OP posts:
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6
starfro · 04/01/2023 22:40

We agreed to provide assistance (in the event of aggression) to Ukraine in 1994 in exchange for them giving up their Nuclear weapons.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum

Original poster
Saysomething1234 · 04/01/2023 22:40

GermanFrench22 · 04/01/2023 22:38

www.csis.org/analysis/united-states-aid-ukraine-investment-whose-benefits-greatly-exceed-its-cost

This is from the US perspective but is relevant to us too on a smaller scale. Basically giving Ukraine weapons is a bargain as they are degrading the ability of Russia to fight a European war.

America has now destroyed half the Russian army by giving 5% of its annual defence budget to Ukraine.

US is talking about exporting gas to europe to fulfil our needs. i think they're doing rather OK from all this.

www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/sep/22/gas-industry-ukraine-war-biden-policy

OP posts:
Greenshake · 04/01/2023 22:40

Theluggage15 · 04/01/2023 22:39

There’s loads of Russians in South London. You’re sounding more dim (Russian bot) with every post.

👏👏👏

MissConductUS · 04/01/2023 22:41

Yet we are spending hundreds of billions in supporting Ukraine in a war which has nothing to do with us.

I see that you're either badly misinformed about the situation or prone to wild exaggeration. Try 7.1 billion Euros in support as of 20 Nov.

www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/12/9/infographic-who-provides-the-most-aid-to-ukraine

And the war has plenty to do with you, as others have pointed out. Nations always act in their own interests.

PineCone74 · 04/01/2023 22:42

As others have said OP, can you perhaps put your ‘annoyance’ to one side for a moment and imagine how you would feel if things were the other way round and we were the invaded country, seeing our loved ones raped and killed in front of us, and you read your comment posted by someone in Ukraine?

wafflyversatile · 04/01/2023 22:43

It's not the war preventing uk issues being dealt with. They weren't being dealt with before the war

meercat23 · 04/01/2023 22:43

Fifiesta · 04/01/2023 21:44

We can’t afford not to.
Walk a mile in someone else’s shoes.
It could be you, your family, your life.
How would you feel then?

Just this. Give up now and where will it end.

thepatronsaintofbubblewrap · 04/01/2023 22:43

EncyclopediaOfNought · 04/01/2023 21:44

These things are always cynical. It’s not because we believe in charity. It’s because we believe there’s an outcome worth paying for in our interests. Our interests around fuel and food production for one, our interests for our own security. Not because we are all cuddly and nice.

Very good answer if you are looking at it a from political stance.
Boris didn't do it out of compassion

ImAvingOops · 04/01/2023 22:43

Nations always act in their own interests Not sure about this. Governments generally act in their best interests. This isn't always the same as national interest.

GermanFrench22 · 04/01/2023 22:43

@Saysomething1234 I am glad you now agree with me. It is clearly in America's self interest to help Ukraine as it is for the UK and other European and democratic countries.

TheHateIsNotGood · 04/01/2023 22:44

I truly think that war is the worst possible option but there are times that defending in a warlike manner when attacked is the only option.

I don't think that Ukraine has 'clean hands' in all this and, thankfully, they are not a NATO member, as it would be full mobilization on the Western Front to a gross level.

Nor do I find any pleasure in the recent Russian military deaths in Donetsk c/o western gift weapons; there is no glory in death, just sadness.

However, arming Ukraine to defend their borders is worth it for now as Putin is formed from the Cold War; and the other side of the Wall always did have a point of view.

But you can't just go around invading and claiming any land you fancy, otherwise we'd all be doing it. We shrugged at Crimea so he chanced it.

Yes, we should continue to arm Ukraine until Russia pulls back. But no, killing Russians is not great. Best solution is Putin himself dies soon.

EngTech · 04/01/2023 22:44

Freedom comes at a price which at times is very high, slavery by another power, the cost is even higher

If the West walk away and let Ukraine go to the wall, Putin would be more than happy

Trouble is, Putin would get the green light to invade other countries as he would know the West would ignore his grab for land and power

If you were in Ukraines position, I would be praying for help, similar to to the situation we were in after 1939

There is a good chance you would be typing this in another language if Uncle Sam had not helped and yes, we paid a lot of money to keep our freedom and way of life plus a high cost in lives to free Europe as well as our losses

Bullies have to be stood up to, this is one of those times 👍

needastrongoneagain · 04/01/2023 22:44

PineCone74 · 04/01/2023 22:42

As others have said OP, can you perhaps put your ‘annoyance’ to one side for a moment and imagine how you would feel if things were the other way round and we were the invaded country, seeing our loved ones raped and killed in front of us, and you read your comment posted by someone in Ukraine?

I think you'll find the OP won't answer questions like this, or similar. Sadly so.

Youwhatnowbiggles · 04/01/2023 22:45

We absolutely must support them. You obviously have no historical reference or knowledge. There’s something called the internet these days - it’s refreshingly easy to educate yourself OP. Give it a go.

Konfetka · 04/01/2023 22:45

Pothoswithasparkle · 04/01/2023 22:33

It was not a legal referendum.

Show quote history

Argentina and Spain would argue that re the Falklands and Gibraltar.

Needtoseethatbiggerpicture · 04/01/2023 22:45

also because diplomacy doesn't sell in the public's eyes

what part of lining your troops up on a border with another country, marching them in, murdering civilians, raping women, etc etc etc do you think demonstrates that Putin really just wants to talk about his problem with Ukraine?

Original poster
Saysomething1234 · 04/01/2023 22:45

WhenIAmOldIShallWearPurple · 04/01/2023 22:39

Costs we would have to bear regardless due to the global nature of energy markets. Which is not how you presented your dishonest original comment. Now who is being daft?

Show quote history

gas prices are global but dependent on transportation costs and policy - transatlantic movement is not possible via pipes and needs ships for example. some education below

www.politico.eu/article/cheap-us-gas-cost-fortune-europe-russia-ukraine-energy/

OP posts:
echt · 04/01/2023 22:46

Saysomething1234 · 04/01/2023 21:38

This may be an unpopular opinion but it is annoying me to no end and NC

We have a littany of issues crying out for funding domestically - NHS broken. Economy going down the drain. Pound down 20% in one year. Public services collapsing, Education system requiring re-investment, high taxes driving talent out. We can keep blaming our politicians but someone needs to prioritise where money goes - and no one is willing to talk about this

Yet we are spending hundreds of billions in supporting Ukraine in a war which has nothing to do with us. Yes we are morally supporting them but is there no amount which will be too much? We are paying both directly (through weapons and aid) and indirectly (through huge energy subsidies - last totalling north of £200bn) - we need to stop this spending, reduce energy prices, stop this craziness

How is this war something we can afford on the basis on principles and why aren't we more aggressively pushing for a negotiated settlement?

We cannot afford this. It sucks for Ukrainians but this is not UK's bill to foot.

AIBU?

I'd have slightly more time to consider your views had you not name changed for this. You have nothing personal to protect, just a way of other MNers not knowing just what you are.

Cowardly behaviour.

PineCone74 · 04/01/2023 22:46

needastrongoneagain · 04/01/2023 22:44

I think you'll find the OP won't answer questions like this, or similar. Sadly so.

Show quote history

Yes, I fear you’re right about that. Depressing.

Bard6817 · 04/01/2023 22:46

Beexo · 04/01/2023 22:34

There's no resources in Afghanistan of course not.

Show quote history

Like when we didn’t end the west african slave trade.

HappinesDependsOnYou · 04/01/2023 22:47

Your argument of Ukraine not being in Nato ignores the whole reason Nato was formed. Peace in Europe and to curb the then Soviet Union. Putin will not stop at Ukraine. Ukraine must win

LivingDeadGirlUK · 04/01/2023 22:48

cantkeepawayforever · 04/01/2023 21:59

www.statista.com/chart/amp/28489/ukrainian-military-humanitarian-and-financial-aid-donors/

is an interesting chart. It dies suggest that the UK is perhaps contributing disproportionately compared with others. I completely accept hat we should support Ukraine, but am not sure why we as a country should do so disproportionately compared with other mainland European countries?

We have more to lose, as we are not part of the EU anymore.

Alice4875 · 04/01/2023 22:48

starfro · 04/01/2023 22:40

We agreed to provide assistance (in the event of aggression) to Ukraine in 1994 in exchange for them giving up their Nuclear weapons.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum

I also think you should take a look at this OP. Ukraine has no nuclear weapons (which likely could have deterred Russian aggression) because they agreed to disarm and UK/US and Russia (who have broken the treaty) promised to offer reassurances that they would not be the victim of aggression.

WhereYouLeftIt · 04/01/2023 22:48

I don't think we can afford NOT to support Ukraine.

Yes as a country we have a lot on our plate right now. A fuckton. We still can't afford for Ukraine to lose, because the world after that happens is not a good place to be. So let's not, OK?

blubberyboo · 04/01/2023 22:49

Yabu
It’s everything to do with us. If Putin succeeds he’ll keep moving west and it will cost us even more. We are part of Europe and we agreed to defend Ukraine years ago.