To think we cannot afford to support Ukraine anymore

[Saysomething1234]

This may be an unpopular opinion but it is annoying me to no end and NC

We have a littany of issues crying out for funding domestically - NHS broken. Economy going down the drain. Pound down 20% in one year. Public services collapsing, Education system requiring re-investment, high taxes driving talent out. We can keep blaming our politicians but someone needs to prioritise where money goes - and no one is willing to talk about this

Yet we are spending hundreds of billions in supporting Ukraine in a war which has nothing to do with us. Yes we are morally supporting them but is there no amount which will be too much? We are paying both directly (through weapons and aid) and indirectly (through huge energy subsidies - last totalling north of £200bn) - we need to stop this spending, reduce energy prices, stop this craziness

How is this war something we can afford on the basis on principles and why aren't we more aggressively pushing for a negotiated settlement?

We cannot afford this. It sucks for Ukrainians but this is not UK's bill to foot.

AIBU?

@Saysomething1234 oh you’ve resorted to calling people ‘dear’ again I see to try and patronise them. God, you’re predictable.

The all caps and your inability to respond to many of these points other than with ‘and your point is’ makes you seem a little hysterical, DEAR. The points you do respond to, you don’t respond with anything new, do you. Almost as though you’ve got a script.

Literally no one said you didn’t have a right to voice your views, but again this is the whingey victim mentality coming to through.

And yes, 31% of about 1000 people on mumsnet. Not exactly representative, DEAR.

@Tukmgru your counter is taking offence to my usage of CAPS and the word “dear”?

if only you had said it at the start. I see it now. You’ve converted me. Let’s arm them to hell and spend all we’ve got. Sorry I don’t know what I was thinking. Must be the vodka 🙄

thanks!!!!

@Saysomething1234

Still no alternatives to Ukraine support? just a miserable rant.

@Alexandra2001 i did post that earlier

but that was before my eyes were opened by the masterful post of @Tukmgru

i now agree we should spend wholeheartedly. We have no monetary constraints. What’s a few billions or hundreds of billions to us. Let’s do this. Properly

@Saysomething1234 🤣🤣🤣 I’ve responded extensively to you throughout this, as have many. You very selectively choose the ones you want to respond to and ignore others, and then play the victim.

People are frustrated because you didn’t come here in good faith. You didn’t want to find out if you were being unreasonable, you wanted to wave your dick around because you think you’re cleverer than everyone else, but your arguments are lazy at best, disproven at worst.

It’s not really worth arguing with people like you because you’re just contrarians other than - crucially - to show that your bad faith doesn’t go unanswered. Wouldn’t want anyone to think that there’s no response just because you’re so very clever. No, you and your fellow travellers must be called out at every turn.

No, you and your fellow travellers must be called out at every turn.

Agreed.

This forum gets a lot of visitors, which is of course why Putin's dick riders and employees are here in the first place. The nonsense has to not only be countered but the people spouting it have to be shown up. Fortunately in this instance, they've done a pretty good job at the latter themselves.

Slava Ukraini (hope I've typed that correctly). Long live Ukraine.

Everyone comparing this to WW2 and listing propaganda like "we have to do what's right!" is hilarious, keep supporting what the master tells you, the end result will surely benefit you, not just line their pockets more

No you didn't... i checked, so you write nonsense to try and cover up your stupidity.

Have you read the thread at all? Even a little bit?

@Saysomething1234 what really pisses me off about people like you is that you are the sort of people who vote Tory, have no empathy for anyone and then wonder why the NHS is fucked. It's fucked because that is what you and others voted for!

We always have a responsibility to help out innocent people who might die because they live under a dictatorship.

Otherwise we can't expect the same help for our children if the worst should happen to us.

Unless what they mean is give Putin everything he wanted in the first place and strengthen him for his next endeavour negotiated settlement? Which as we've discussed isn't really an alternative because (a) Ukraine is a sovereign nation and (b) unilateral UK action would achieve nothing except weakening us as a country and scuppering those lucrative trade deals with our allies that are somehow going to replace our lost Brexit GDP.

If any of your points were reasonable, you wouldn't be shouting.

Hey, @Saysomething1234, I've answered lots of your questions. Could answer either of my most recent ones directly to you?

Either in the interests of two-way discussion or, you know, basic manners.

ImAvingOops

I appreciate things are getting a bit emotive on here (myself included) but I guess it is extremely hard to take seriously the 'we don't have the money and our country is going to the dogs' rhetoric from the very people who are quite literally part responsible for the impoverished state the UK finds itself in. Not all 'remoaners' were chest beating EU-philes thinking the status quo was 'perfect' and I certainly have some sympathy with some of the points you have articulated above. I was always a firm believer that we were better off inside the worlds largest and most prosperous trade block and single market acting as agents of change to fix the above problems rather then isolated on the outside. As the whole Brexit mess unfolded it was perfectly obvious prior to the referendum that there was no plan post Brexit, just the the usual public school financially insulated charlatans making promises that anyone with a sprinkling of knowledge on the matter saw were undeliverable. There was no coherent road map post Article 50, just lots of vague options on the table (EFTA, Canada+, Swiss, Norway option etc) only backed up with the British exceptionalism that all other European nations would just agree to whatever we cherry-picked. Sadly for the likes of Saysomething1234 she/he is exhibiting all the classic language and attitude of a text book anti ‘Johnny Foreigner’ Little Englander, taking zero ownership of the dogs dinner they helped create while moaning about the new hardships we face. Breixteers are free to make their thoughts on the mismanagement of the country known but don't be too surprised if you get flack for enabling the same wankers doing the mismanaging who brought you your ill defined pyrrhic victory.

I might be misreading but that sounds bit aggressive to me. I was just correcting yet another wrong fact, I am not arguing about rights or wrongs there

@DanseAvecLesLoups there were politicians on both sides of the political divide who both supported and opposed Brexit. And I do think it's relevant that although the 52% in favour were not 52% of the population as a whole, the 28% of the population who didn't vote, clearly didn't feel strongly in support of remaining either, or they would have said so. Does this mean that only the minority who actively chose to remain, get to comment on what should or should not be done next indefinitely? Because that's not democracy either.

I don't think anyone who voted could have predicted the whole BJ fiasco or the utter shit show that has been the Conservative Party since

@Saysomething1234 Why dont you take a moment and play a game of Risk with a few friends instead of shouting in capitals on mumsnet.
Either you are a russian propagandaist or someone with very narrow view on global issues.

I appreciate things are getting a bit emotive on here (myself included) but I guess it is extremely hard to take seriously the 'we don't have the money and our country is going to the dogs' rhetoric from the very people who are quite literally part responsible for the impoverished state the UK finds itself in.

Exactly.

so when you elect a government (parallel here - vote for brexit) and government does something wrong (parallel here brexit goes wrong), do you lose the right to vote again (parallel here have views on Ukraine war funding)?

Obviously anyone can comment, it's a free country. But those who by their decision to vote Leave chose to make us all poorer are setting themselves up for criticism if they then have the bare faced cheek to talk about what we can't afford. We can't afford it because of what they did!

It might be slightly different if you were right about nobody being able to predict the Johnson and Tory shitshow, but you're not. It was obvious in 2016 that a Leave vote was going to empower the right wing of the Tories, that Johnson had only chosen Leave to further his own ambitions and that he'd be a terrible negotiater, and most of all that there was no possibility of a Brexit that didn't make things worse for the country. People who didn't realise this should've done a better job at informing themselves.

I used caps because i dont know how to quote/reply to each line separately, not to shout but separate the two texts - original and mine 🙄

I'm not the one losing my s**t and fuming at the mouth because others disagree with me

N.B. the definition of hindsight bias

Hindsight bias is our tendency to look back at an event that we could not predict at the time and think the outcome was easily predictable. It is also called the 'knew-it-all-along' effect.

And yet no one seems to be clamouring for a Labour Government.

There's a lot wrong with the country and I think it's bigger than than the people who voted for Brexit. We all just get called ignorant bigots and told we've no right to a further opinion, that it's all our fault. But the rot in this country started long before Brexit - the vote result was people trying to address it, I think.

Post Brexit, there's been a lot of ignoring that what was wrong in the EU in the first place, is still wrong. And while I agree it would have been better to fix it from the inside, it was very resistant to reform since there were too many politicians doing very well out of it as it stood. Our own politicians included.