To think we cannot afford to support Ukraine anymore

[Saysomething1234]

This may be an unpopular opinion but it is annoying me to no end and NC

We have a littany of issues crying out for funding domestically - NHS broken. Economy going down the drain. Pound down 20% in one year. Public services collapsing, Education system requiring re-investment, high taxes driving talent out. We can keep blaming our politicians but someone needs to prioritise where money goes - and no one is willing to talk about this

Yet we are spending hundreds of billions in supporting Ukraine in a war which has nothing to do with us. Yes we are morally supporting them but is there no amount which will be too much? We are paying both directly (through weapons and aid) and indirectly (through huge energy subsidies - last totalling north of £200bn) - we need to stop this spending, reduce energy prices, stop this craziness

How is this war something we can afford on the basis on principles and why aren't we more aggressively pushing for a negotiated settlement?

We cannot afford this. It sucks for Ukrainians but this is not UK's bill to foot.

AIBU?

I very much endorse this. I can't get my head around embracing a 5% permanent reduction in GDP with one hand and with the other demanding we stop trying to end a war in Europe, entirely in line with our national security and economic interests, on the basis of cost.

So would very many groups in Russia including ones who work/worked recently with the government

We can't afford not to. Russia's empire building is one of the existential threats to our way of life in the 21st century, alongside climate change.

Putin expected it to be over quicker too, didn't he plan to overrun Kyiv in 10 days?

When British advisors organised an exercise in Autumn 2021 to see how the Ukrainians would defend against a possible invasion, they were struck by how chaotic and incompetent the plans seemed. It turned out of course that the plans they were shown were not the real ones, Ukraine knew that intelligence sharing took place and they didn't trust that the information wouldn't leak out (we now know that there was a Russian mole inside the German government). So we had no idea either that the Ukrainians would be able to hold out as well as they did, again we thought that they'd be overrun and that they'd have to organise a Taliban-style insurgency against the Russians using techniques we'd picked up in Afghanistan and taught them. Not that an insurgency was ever going to be a quick solution.

So in order to save the Ukrainian people from the grip of the Nazis in Kyiv Russia employs the Reichsadler tattooed Dmitry Utkin and those nice chaps form the Wagner group who have various links to white supremacist and neo Nazi groups. Seems like an odd solution to denazify Ukraine by using...erm...Neo Nazis

The big difference of course being that in 1812 and 1941 Russia/USSR was defending against an invading army, it wasn't the invading army itself. Though the propaganda machine has been working overtime to depict Ukraine as an aggressor, with false flag operations to back this up (just like Operation Himmler in 1939). The thing that hindered Hitler's push towards Moscow of course was the "rasputitsa" muddy season that stopped him achieving his goal before winter set in. Exactly the same mud that stopped Putin's vehicles on the road to Kyiv.

I'm actually seeing quite a few similarities to 1917. Bakhmut is turning into Ypres and Russian troops are digging trenches - for what good those tactics are in a modern war. Sooner or later the Russian public will tire of their sons being thrown into a meat grinder (especially as the effects get seen in the wealthier regions, not just impoverished Siberia), will we see another Russian Revolution?

I wish I could remember who said it but.....

Putin's mistake was sending slaves to liberate free men

I’ve never heard of anything so bloody ridiculous. It’s scary to think there’s anyone who would think we should stop supporting any country. OP, you do realise we’d all be next on Russia’s list - don’t you?

Russia needs to be broken up. It is too big and troublesome. Split it up into 5-10 smaller countries.

Please don’t regret it - I am finding this thread so interesting (I must admit to being - intentionally - quite ignorant of the ins and outs of the whole situation) and it is very important to keep discussion open and see others point of view. Don’t let the more aggressive posters here put you off, you haven’t said anything offensive IMO.

Really learning a lot here, I began reading this thread feeling very “in the middle” but now I understanding much more clearly how important it is that we support the Ukrainians. I only hope it doesn’t drag on for much longer, but no one knows the answer to this. My prayers are with all the innocent people suffering in this war.

Please don’t try to bully people off the thread for expressing opinions different to your own - we must keep discussion open in order to continue learning. Unless being deliberately offensive, people are entitled to their personal opinion. We are a free country still, thank God.

Don't panic. Its not being given it. It will be a loan which they'll have to pay back... Ukraine will be in hock to the UK til God knows when.

Like Britain after WWII had to pay back the US.

UK is giving a pittance compared to the USA... they will not owe anyone anything for weapons.

We also do not yet know how this will all end... there is no guarantee Ukraine will win.

The real costs will be in rebuilding the country... that will be trillions... whoever has to bear it... though from what i ve seen of the Ukrainians in the UK, they will come back and rebuild their country themselves if they are given the chance.

I believe the EU has budgeted a certain amount for rebuilding too.. as have the USA.

Speaking of anti-Semitic tropes...

He was born in Kryvyi Rih, small in the middle of Ukraine, or do you have some alternative tin foil hat 'alternative facts'

Just disgusting antisemitism in line with their previous posts.

Russian bots and apologists usually end up getting anti Semitic sooner or later.

I haven’t read the full thread, it’s too big. YABVVVU.

The Ukraine is Europe’s eastern flank, our eastern flank. Read some history on the number of barbarian invasions from the regions of the Eurasian Steppes, their typical brutality, and the impact onEurope. Read up on the brutality the Russians inflicted on the Poles. We cannot afford to not support the east against barbarian incursion.

We mustn't give in to war criminals, no way. No appeasement.

All deleted, must have been bad.

I missed the posts. They weee accusing someone else of being anti semitic earlier.

Malfunctioning probably

Sorry i may have started that... called an anti semite... Jas of olde would have said what i thought about that and got a ban!

I reported instead, its a better way.