To think we cannot afford to support Ukraine anymore

[Saysomething1234]

This may be an unpopular opinion but it is annoying me to no end and NC

We have a littany of issues crying out for funding domestically - NHS broken. Economy going down the drain. Pound down 20% in one year. Public services collapsing, Education system requiring re-investment, high taxes driving talent out. We can keep blaming our politicians but someone needs to prioritise where money goes - and no one is willing to talk about this

Yet we are spending hundreds of billions in supporting Ukraine in a war which has nothing to do with us. Yes we are morally supporting them but is there no amount which will be too much? We are paying both directly (through weapons and aid) and indirectly (through huge energy subsidies - last totalling north of £200bn) - we need to stop this spending, reduce energy prices, stop this craziness

How is this war something we can afford on the basis on principles and why aren't we more aggressively pushing for a negotiated settlement?

We cannot afford this. It sucks for Ukrainians but this is not UK's bill to foot.

AIBU?

OP, your post has come too late - didn’t you hear, the Great British Weather has come to save the day (or rather, European weather). Russian gas is old news, it’s so warm that gas prices are plummeting - which means next winters forward gas prices are also plummeting as gas in store won’t be used up.

So this will save all the money we need for the NHS and we can to continue to aid Ukraine as is right and proper. The Cost of Living crisis will be over by Easter at this rate.

Russia’s ability to weaponise energy is seriously weakened by above-seasonal-average weather patterns. Shame you didn’t write your post two weeks ago, although it would’ve been rubbish then too. Your bot algorithms need adjusting for the weather.

We can’t afford not to.

How would life look now if we hadn’t stopped Hitler’s March through Europe? Freedom comes at a great price sometimes.

China is going to be the largest economy in the world within decades. I dont think our fight in Ukraine is changing that. They have different values, and we wont be comfortable with them, but that wont matter

China is seriously weakened by their approach to Covid.

right. i guess i will live with the satisfaction that we are no longer in the EU. whether majority or not anymore is a figment of your imagination

FWIW - I didnt bring up brexit - others asked me how i voted when they didnt like my line of argument

One of the Paras didn’t think they were worth it, in the scheme of things.
It was his arse on the line, and all those British deaths - For a tiny rock in the Southern ocean , The Malvinas.
How can it be “ British” when it’s thousands of miles away?

Over use of words like woke, liberal and sheeple. Brexit voter. Posts have a certain UKIPish whiff about them. Nigel Farage shaped dildo in the bedside draw by a copy of the Express too?

The use of "woke" and "sheeple" is rather telling.

I'm not suggesting that we ignore China, I'm suggesting that actively feeding their ambitions and emboldening them by making it abundantly clear that the West will never stand in the way of illegal expansionism by those who have an economic lever over us isn't the smartest move in the world if we are in favour of a rules-based international system and value things like an independent Taiwan.

So we've established that you'd give up Ukraine rather than have a few more years of pain while we do what we should have done decades ago and establish better domestic energy sources. You'd also apparently give up Taiwan (have you thought much about the economic impact of a Chinese takeover of Taiwan? If you don't like economic pain I wouldn't look too closely about economic predictions of what that would do to the global economy.)

I'll ask again - what are your red lines? Is it the Baltic states, or are you ditching NATO? Finland? Singapore? Australia?

are you really actually defending appeasing Hitler?

Don't be ridiculous - no one who knew what Hitler did would defend him. But when Chamberlain was making his decisions, neither he nor anyone else knew what would happen in Germany. Having been through the horrors of the First World War, I think it's wrong to condemn a man for trying to keep us out of a second.
And a country can only fight and win a war, if it has the means to do so. Maybe if we'd fought earlier we might have lost. Who knows?
We chucked our lot in with Russia back then, whose leader was as awful as Hitler. These things are not as simple as right v wrong. Good leaders have to weigh up when is the right time, whether they can win, what the costs will be to their population. There's no shame in trying everything you can to avoid war.

You are not being unreasonable. People are utterly brainwashed by the media regarding the Ukraine situation.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/amp/entry/brexit-cost-uk-government-revealed_uk_63a2d473e4b0a13a950ba3b5/

Well we've lost huge sums from Brexit.
I'd rather spend a tiny fraction of it on Ukraine and deterring Russian aggression.

ugh, learn economics. The energy subsidies are being spent on energy, not Ukraine. Russia's cuts to gas supply caused prices to go up. The gas was purchased elsewhere at the new, higher prices. This was not anything that Ukraine or the UK had any control over. Prices are now down due to warmer weather and increased supply. Perhaps read a bit of economics with the politics.

@Saysomething1234
Do you know what was the single moment when Britain could have prevented the bombing of London?

At Munich, 30th September 1938.
The day when UK, France and Italy decided, that the best way to avoid war in Europe is to hand over a big part of Czechoslovakia to Germany.

Czechs were well equipped, with fortifications on borders and ready to fight if there was a chance for support. Actually, Czechoslovakia was part of military alliance with (some of) those western countries, as Czechoslovakia had a significant army and industry, including military industry in that times. But the west told CZ to surrender.
Betrayed Czechs did, at least officially.

(Skipping here Hitler's attack on Poland after that, it's already long)
What was the surprise when Hitler came to France and UK. Equipped with both German and Czech weapons, with German military factories running nonstop using Czech people as a slave labour

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Current Russia isn't a democracy. Current Russia doesn't respect the UK, despise your lifestyle.

If you find a peace, how long will Russia keep it? It has been only 8 years since the settlement after Russia attacked Ukraine and took Crimea.

Ukrainian grain is very important for big part of the world. If Russia gets control over it, it can starve big part of the world (and in past they did intentionally caused famine and killed millions of people), cause incredible migration crisis and get overall food prices through the sky.
It is good enough reason to support Ukraine now.

Ukraine is willing to fight - for their country and their freedom. Their fight is shaping your own future and safety. It is weakening Russia a lot. All it takes from the UK now is some level of material/monetary support, some military intelligence, some equipment.
If you can't afford the support now, do you think you afford the consequences?

The very cogent and detailed comments in this thread would suggest otherwise

Oh lovey. Quite a bit has changed since LIz Truss was Prime Minister, did nobody tell you?

What a ghastly racist thing to say. We are not supporting Ukraine because of the colour of their skin. Rather because it’s close to home and it matters to us a country if they lose because it will change the power balance in Europe. Where we live.

incredible deficit of logic. the mind boggles.

"Russia's cuts to gas supply caused prices to go up. The gas was purchased elsewhere at the new, higher prices"

why did russia cut gas supply?

Leaving aside the moral imperative, I would argue appeasing Putin would endanger NATO and us, and a wider war, even if non, nuclear , would cost us far more than supporting Ukraine. It is incredibly naive to think that Putin would stop at Ukraine if he was not opposed. Moldova and Finland at least are in his sights. As are Estonia, Lithuania and Latvia as well. Perhaps even other USSR states including Poland. Russia must be stopped in Ukraine. And we should be hugely grateful to Ukrainians for being brave and protecting us

Elaborate please?

OP, your premise that it has nothing to do with us is just wrong. We can't afford not to support Ukraine. Nothing more to say.

we are not supporting Ukrainian. We are happy that they are keeping the Russians at bay.
Remember the last time a mad dictator invaded an Eastern European country, and everyone was like… Oh well…? In 1939?

This absolutely. We are fighting at the moment by giving some weapons. The alternative is capitulation we Ukraine but fighting in our own country later. We are lucky for the bravery of the Ukrainians- it’s a proxy war

"When your neighbour's house is on fire, you don't haggle over the price of your garden hose"

Would posters be willing for their own husbands and sons to be sent to this war?

@SueVineer if you think that is in any way true you are living in fantasy land. Of course Europe is supporting Ukraine because they can identify with the colour of their skin. Some parts of the middle east are closer in distance to us than Ukraine is, as the crow flies.