To think we cannot afford to support Ukraine anymore

[Saysomething1234]

This may be an unpopular opinion but it is annoying me to no end and NC

We have a littany of issues crying out for funding domestically - NHS broken. Economy going down the drain. Pound down 20% in one year. Public services collapsing, Education system requiring re-investment, high taxes driving talent out. We can keep blaming our politicians but someone needs to prioritise where money goes - and no one is willing to talk about this

Yet we are spending hundreds of billions in supporting Ukraine in a war which has nothing to do with us. Yes we are morally supporting them but is there no amount which will be too much? We are paying both directly (through weapons and aid) and indirectly (through huge energy subsidies - last totalling north of £200bn) - we need to stop this spending, reduce energy prices, stop this craziness

How is this war something we can afford on the basis on principles and why aren't we more aggressively pushing for a negotiated settlement?

We cannot afford this. It sucks for Ukrainians but this is not UK's bill to foot.

AIBU?

NATO is where i'd draw the line - i think some asian countries are part of it too - incl sgp and taiwan

For anyone else, if the logic is food supply security, energy supply, labour supply trade route security, whatever - becomes a calculated decision and a cost benefit analysis

walking around wearing an expensive hat of morality isnt my path

"woke liberals" 🙄

You're behaving like a coward. You're just going to slither back to your usual username outside this thread. No one with any sense will take anything you have to say seriously.

Are you aware that there are sanctions on quite a few other large oil producers? Like Iran? And that we are still buying Russian oil?

Russia tried to influence Britain in favour of Brexit to isolate us from Europe. Divide and conquer.

It is to the credit of British and European leaders that we have been able to stay United on this issue.

However anyone who spends time on social media, thinks they are better informed than all the sheeple about current affairs and is pro Brexit has probably been exposed to a lot of Russian propaganda.

I am sure the current conservative government would be surprised their support for Ukraine means they are woke lefties.

outstanding question

If you draw the line at nato, you’re kidding yourself if you think you’re doing anything other than putting the war off for a year or two by not standing up for Ukraine. It will be Poland or the Baltics next - they know that and so do we. Better for us the war is fought in Ukraine than closer to home- however bad that is for them.

“An expensive hat of morality” 😂😂😂…..really?

so what is the point of nato then? might as well be the defender of "anywhere we wish to fight"

Yes no limits on our support OP

really shortsighted and unbelievable selfish

‘Woke liberals’ ‘sucks for Ukraine’ - the callous justifications of right wing people like the OP make me angry. It’s always ‘as long as I’m okay’ on every opinion they express. I hope you never have to live through the horrors that the Ukraine people have suffered only to hear ‘we can’t afford to save you’ from idiots like yourself.

YANBU @Saysomething1234 Obviously you're not going to get many people on here admitting to agreeing with you, but nearly a THIRD of people voting do.

We need to stop now. Also stop aid to other countries. Need to get our own house in order first. People losing their homes, livelihoods, jobs etc, people going to food banks, soaring energy prices, no pay rises in a decade and a half, cost of living crisis etc etc etc.

We need to rein in the aid we are giving to ALL overseas countries.

And IDGAF what anyone thinks about me saying this. I am entitled to my opinion. So sue me.

So long as it is British made 🙄

Also if any of those things (food security, supply security etc) were important to you in any way op, you would not have voted for brexit. Stop lying Vladimir

In raw numbers, yes the £ we spend may seem like a lot but this completely ignored the bigger picture OP and is very short sighted.

Several points

Putin wants to expand Russia, not happy with his existing colonies, he wants to expand westwards, if we let him - where does he stop? Then we have another cold war on our hands which is significantly more economically damaging than what's happening now.

Ukraine will be worth a lot of money to those who side with them. Yep, it's very cynical but a country with the resources like Ukraine could be very financially well off.. who wants to help them rebuild and have firstndibs on grain etc? Of course we do, we'd get the war costs back in a year if we got some decent trade deals off the back of this.

Russia is a dying country, it already has a dangerously low birth rate and a small cohort of birthing age people, many of whom have left. It's economic performance is woeful for somewhere with that many natural resources. A country in that kind of trouble has two options, reform or go on the attack - lose this war and the one chance at a more stable democratic Russia becomes feasible (I doubt it'll happen but hey).

China... This is twofold, don't think for a second this hasn't given China pause for thought on its plans for Taiwan. They'll have seen the Russian armies performance, noticed certain similarities between their armed forces and will likely be much more cautious going forwards. Secondly, and tied to my last point re reform - Russia is our buffer between China and the West, without a stable Russia, China will basically make it a vassal state and all of a sudden has access to seriously damage Western Europe economically and potentially militarily.

Finally... Wars are good for the military which will pay dividends in decades to come. We've seen how ineffective tanks are on the battlefield without adequate support, drones in have shown us the future of ground attacks, we've seen the effectiveness of combined arms and communication. This might not sound much but if Russia goes full going ho, or China starts getting antsy and wants to expand - you'll be thankful of what we've learnt and that we have practical experience of how to apply it. I hate war like the next man, but this has been a very important war which will be taught at Sandhurst for generations to come.

Have whatever opinion you want, just don't imagine its in any way relevant or interesting to anyone. It's not.

We have international obligations, and your opinion is ridiculous

Not learning the lessons of history? Remember those troublesome Jews making a big fuss about nothing? No?

@PurpleButterflyWings you had me at 'we need to stop now'. Agree with you 100%.

This. I had the very same thought.

OP started out with man-in-the-street uninformed outrage and poor grasp of facts then veering to being well read on politics and global oil prices, with Russian propaganda thrown into the mix. Not a single care for Ukraine or the humanitarian angle or war crimes. Nope nothing to see there. Fixated on NATO, diplomacy and negotiation. Our cut-and-paste queen.

Oh dear, this thread is not going OP's way. I am pleasantly surprised and heartened by the ongoing support for Ukraine. Thank you all you mntters who get it.

Such dated opinions with limited understanding of how our economy works and the dependency on other countries I’m out supply chain. We are a globalise economy and can not rely on nationalistic industries.

if there are global conflicts if significantly impacts us. Why was wholesale energy soo expensive???

Yeah, I think if we switched off that 0.5% of our GDP for foreign aid , we'd solve the NHS crisis overnight......

As the 5th richest country on the planet, we have no obligation but to look after number one. You tell em @PurpleButterflyWings

Aren't some things more important than money? And was the UK really in a much better position financially before the war?

PurpleButterflyWings

YANBU @Saysomething1234Obviously you're not going to get many people on here admitting to agreeing with you, but nearly a THIRD of people voting do

Are you aware we are not actually at war in Ukraine? If they attacked Poland we would actually have to go to war against the Russians? A nuclear power. So you actually understand that?

it’s much better we fight this in this way by giving some funds to Ukraine to buy weapons than to fight it as an all out war in nato territory. You may be too stupid to understand that but I hope others aren’t.

A substantial part of UK's foreign aid is now spent on Ukrainian refugees and no longer leaves our shores

see this - www.theguardian.com/global-development/2022/oct/29/billions-in-foreign-aid-never-leaves-britain-under-sunak-rules-analysis

A large proportion is being spent on housing refugees, mainly from Ukraine, according to the Centre for Global Development (CGD).

and this

researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-9663/CBP-9663.pdf