Is a wealth tax the only way?

[Cuppasoupmonster]

…of raising capital for proper public service reform and not just sticking plaster ‘solutions’. Just interested to hear others thoughts.

YANBU = yes it is
YABU = no it isn’t

'Oh dear, I floated the idea of a wealth tax, can't define wealth or rich or how it would work and some people have pointed out the flaws and disagreed with me. How spiky and defensive can you get, eh?'

Well if you barely broke even you won’t have paid tax!

I’m not sure why everyone is so obsessed with taxing to solve the economic issues. The main problem in the UK is growth, and taxing capital gains on selling companies etc will only make people less likely to keep own wealth or build a company here. As others have said, it will go elsewhere, to other countries..

Taxing ‘rich’ individuals isn’t going to solve the mismanaged NHS or the covid black hole.

At what level is a wealth tax triggered ?

It will hit the very people that need help and I would consider retiring if I felt it was not worth workin 😳

😂 back again Mrs d? Are you stalking me as you’re on almost every thread I post on 😱

The problem in this country is most people think tax increases are good if it doesn’t impact them.

I have no problem with a wealth tax. Me and DH are high earners, but we come from working class backgrounds. No help with deposits etc. We’ve chosen to send the children to private school so compared to lots of our contemporaries we have a relatively small house and big mortgage. Low assets.

My friend who is a SAHM, husband high earner, with a lovely house (huge help with deposit) and Trust that pays kids school fees would think a wealth tax is outrageous and we should just tax high earners a bit more.

And then we have those who just shout “tax Amazon more” and forget we are in a global economy and it’s not like loads of other countries get lots of tax from them.

Over £5m would be my suggestion and then only unearned assets or gains.

People like tax increases that don’t impact them

I have no problem with a wealth tax

[we have] low assets

So those workers get nothing?

Oh yeah, that’s right they get a wage in exchange for their labor. Seems fair to me.

I live in beaconsfield which is one of the wealthiest towns in the U.K. - average house price is 1.1 million. Almost everyone I know here went to a normal comp, made sound decisions and worked hard.
we already pay a massive amount of tax - why more?

Minimum wage jobs to build one of the biggest empires the world has ever seen? Really you think that’s right?

You do realise that without minimum wage legislation people would be exploited to below the ability to live. Look at history.

Is Bezos paying less than minimum wage? No.. then you have no argument there. Unless I missed a news article about Amazon.

As for the minimum wage workers building an empire, I mean they are essential to it, but they didn’t build it. It’s a good thing they are able to trade their labor for part of the revenue that that company makes.

YABU - Revenue raising needs something better and more sustainable than a wealth tax. It's just really the squeezed middle being shafted again.

What is wealth anyway?
According to the article linked '‘Wealth’ would be defined to cover all assets (including homes and pensions)' According to many people on Mumsnet and in RL it just seems to be anyone earning more than them. This is the usual heavy handed, indiscriminate and grabby approach to revenue raising IMO.
People wont have to worry about the very wealthy signing up to this, they have the best tax advisors, wealth managers and accountants and can exploit every legal loophole known to man. There would be war if people were told they were going to pay a one off/ additional tax on on their future income, let alone future income which is not guaranteed.

-One off/additional tax your main home - We have that already, its called Stamp Duty and it is based on the value of the house at purchase. Houses and pensions go up and down in value. Nor does your home necessarily correlate to your earnings if you have bought and sold well. Will any tax adjust for this discrepancy, no, too complicated as we saw with child benefit when they introduced salary limits. Will we get a refund if the sale price is lower at the point of sale if we down size? Not likely!

-One off/additional tax on pensions?
Great idea with the huge pension black hole we are hurtling towards.

The discussion of taxes should always go hand in hand with discussions on spending and accountability otherwise it's good money after bad. Most people don't mind paying a fair amount of tax they object to an unfair tax burden and inefficient spending. Lets face it the government's record on spending is hardly amazing. Track and trace, anyone? PPE?

A power imbalance is the issue. Starving people will work in any conditions - look at emerging markets: kids dying under looms in material factories. Just because people face legislation in the U.K. to make them give the ‘minimum’ they can get away with, doesn’t mean it’s right.

Jeff Bezoz(only an example, there are many) pays less tax than the people he employs. How can that be right for society?

If you don’t honestly think that billions of pounds that has never faced tax, that benefits no one except Jeff and his yet unproduced progeny should not face some redistribution to redress the power imbalance, fair enough. I can’t see how else you deal with the divide of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer.

I’m OK as I have skills that are highly sort. When I’m eventually replaced by a computer, I’ll join the growing under class.

Are you on the top or soon joining the underclass? I can tell you raw capitalism is a dream that fewer and fewer will be part of.

It will be blown and wasted by incompetent corrupt politicians.

The wealthy will afford to emigrate which they will do so we will be worse off.

So idea is not great.

Because it’s not wealth unless they sell it. It’s their home!

I mean they are essential to it, but they didn’t build it
he's still stuffed if he cant get people to work for him, no-one is an island

It's still their money though.

Ok so would higher tax on death be more acceptable? Or indeed capital gains tax if they did sell it? Both of these things happen in other countries.

I find the subject of wealth inequality interesting. Usually vast disparity of wealth in societies leads to social unrest and higher levels of violence. I personally wouldn’t want to live in a gated compound too afraid to go out. I hope the U.K. never gets to that, but if you look at the recent spate of violent robberies against footballers and other high profile celebs (Mark Cavendish I noted was a victim recently) I think the beginning of that has started to show, even in the U.K.

Exactly. I think the Quakers of old got it right, well except the sobriety 😂

Then why tax anyone at all? If it’s their money not to be taken away from them?

Absolutely. I read an article about high taxation in Scandinavian countries which was interesting, it interviewed a high earner who didn’t begrudge paying a lot of tax because he said he felt he was ‘investing in the society around him’. That he felt creating a pleasant, safe and educated community was as beneficial to him as a living environment as it was to the people who directly benefited from his taxes. I thought that was a really benevolent but also intelligent way of looking at it.

So by extension no, people sitting on hoarded of wealth and at loathe to ‘distribute’ any of it cannot really complain about living in a run down society. They’re only wealthy because somebody else isn’t.

That he felt creating a pleasant, safe and educated community was as beneficial to him as a living environment as it was to the people who directly benefited from his taxes. I thought that was a really benevolent but also intelligent way of looking at it

This is exactly it. Tax should be reframed. Every man and woman for themselves is a sad and miserable society. Communism doesn’t work, but neither does pure unadulterated capitalism.

I would willingly pay more tax.