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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Is a wealth tax the only way?

356 replies

Cuppasoupmonster · 04/01/2023 16:36

…of raising capital for proper public service reform and not just sticking plaster ‘solutions’. Just interested to hear others thoughts.

YANBU = yes it is
YABU = no it isn’t

OP posts:
MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 05/01/2023 21:43

Cuppasoupmonster · 04/01/2023 20:16

😂 back again Mrs d? Are you stalking me as you’re on almost every thread I post on 😱

Show quote history

You flatter yourself. I only stalk interesting posters.

Kendodd · 05/01/2023 21:45

I sometimes think tax is a bit of a red herring. I don't think the problem is that rich people don't pay enough tax, I think it's that they hoard profits. Jeff Bezos didn't earn all his money himself, the people working for him did. How exactly you force business owners not to hoard all the profits for themselves though, I don't know. In the absence of that, I suppose tax is the only answer.

Original poster
Cuppasoupmonster · 05/01/2023 21:47

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 05/01/2023 21:43

You flatter yourself. I only stalk interesting posters.

Show quote history

I will accept the compliment 💁🏼‍♀️

OP posts:
Xenia · 05/01/2023 21:49

Never in history have fewer people had the biggest tax burden and more generally we have the highest tax burden for 70 years. So what we need is a much smaller state and lower taxes - not more taxes heaped upon the huge taxes we already have.

Xenia · 05/01/2023 21:50

Andy anyone tempted to vote Labour in 2 years' time, Labour may well come after the equity in your house, your savings and your pension i.e. a wealth tax so be very careful before voting Labour.

Hawkins001 · 05/01/2023 21:52

Cuppasoupmonster · 04/01/2023 16:39

‘A wealth tax (also called a capital tax or equity tax) is a tax on an entity's holdings of assets. This includes the total value of personal assets, including cash, bank deposits, real estate, assets in insurance and pension plans, ownership of unincorporated businesses, financial securities, and personal trusts’

This, in short.

No it's not, based on the philosophy of Jamie dimon, from Jp Morgan and chase. We need a balanced tax system.

Sunsetintheeast · 05/01/2023 22:26

Kendodd · 05/01/2023 21:45

I sometimes think tax is a bit of a red herring. I don't think the problem is that rich people don't pay enough tax, I think it's that they hoard profits. Jeff Bezos didn't earn all his money himself, the people working for him did. How exactly you force business owners not to hoard all the profits for themselves though, I don't know. In the absence of that, I suppose tax is the only answer.

Its something that some have addressed such as John Lewis. He gave away his business to those that built it.

John Bogel is the only man to have created a mutual of an investment company.

Quakers believed in giving back and their names and legacies are still around today.

Unfortunately some people (on this thread) seem more obsessed with defending these modern industrialists in some stupor of belief. No ideas just a defence of the status quo. Weird.

We need more people to pledge their fortunes - The Giving Pledge. It’s becoming a movement in the US amongst the super rich, but it needs to gain more traction.

I would happily be an HRH

AreOttersJustWetCats · 05/01/2023 22:29

Yvon Chouinard did similar with his company

Sunsetintheeast · 05/01/2023 22:33

AreOttersJustWetCats · 05/01/2023 22:29

Yvon Chouinard did similar with his company

That’s cool and sort of fits.

ImaginaryDragon · 05/01/2023 22:54

people shouldn't be facing additional taxes on their only home. It is a lazy, grabby and unsophisticated way of raising money. You home is not wealth.

The government needs a more efficient, accountable and transparent system for spending before they start raising money. Everyone, not just homeowners, has a part to play in reducing the burden on the system from pensions, through to healthcare and everything in between.

TonTonMacoute · 05/01/2023 23:09

Cuppasoupmonster · 04/01/2023 16:36

…of raising capital for proper public service reform and not just sticking plaster ‘solutions’. Just interested to hear others thoughts.

YANBU = yes it is
YABU = no it isn’t

Why do you think lack of funds is the problem, rather than poor productivity and inefficiency.

We read that the NHS is on its knees yet they still have money to employ more diversity officers.

There was a thread last week talking about the biblical amounts of waste in the NHS. Let's tackle that before we start raising taxes shall we?

Mark19735 · 06/01/2023 00:10

Methinks some people need to realise that the term "raising taxes" is a synonym for "levying taxes" and not a synonym for "increasing the level of taxation".

All governments raise taxes. Usually this is done before they spend the money raised. How they spend the money should be verified by the national audit office, and accountability for what they spent the money on is via the ballot box.

The most biblical waste of all time has been the independent strategic nuclear deterrent. An immoral weapons system that no sane person would ever use. Imagine the number of hospitals we could have built if not for that ...

ErrolTheDragon · 06/01/2023 00:20

AreOttersJustWetCats · 05/01/2023 22:29

Yvon Chouinard did similar with his company

And Julian richer (Richer Sounds)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richer_Sounds

ImaginaryDragon · 06/01/2023 02:29

Mark19735 · 06/01/2023 00:10

Methinks some people need to realise that the term "raising taxes" is a synonym for "levying taxes" and not a synonym for "increasing the level of taxation".

All governments raise taxes. Usually this is done before they spend the money raised. How they spend the money should be verified by the national audit office, and accountability for what they spent the money on is via the ballot box.

The most biblical waste of all time has been the independent strategic nuclear deterrent. An immoral weapons system that no sane person would ever use. Imagine the number of hospitals we could have built if not for that ...

A home is not a liquid asset, it can go up or more likely down in the time that it takes to sell. Any tax additional to what we have now for the home we live in is an increase in taxation for those affected. If you sell your home and live on the proceed you are living on savings, if you sell your home and give it to family a friend then you are passing on wealth. context is everything.

An audit will test controls but it is largely retrospective and in certain situations be a bit like shutting the door after the horse has bolted. In any event, if audits were infallible Arthur Andersen would still exist,

I am not a fan of nuclear but I do wonder if the Ukraine would be in the position it is in now if they had a nuclear deterrent.

Dunelmer · 06/01/2023 05:57

Op did say and housing associations are publicly funded.

You have your views. Just don't make factually wrong statements.

Dunelmer · 06/01/2023 05:58

@healthadvice123

Op did say and ha is indeed publicly funded.

You can have whatever view you want, but facts are facts.

Mark19735 · 06/01/2023 08:22

Sigh ...

If the government of the day has decided that this is how it wants to fund services, and allows people to accrue their liability for taxes so that they become due on the sale of an asset ... you aren't being newly taxed or additionally taxed or taxed more at that point. You are settling a debt that you have previously accumulated. Just like selling your house and having to pay off any mortgage that is still outstanding.

Someone who owns a house is already being taxed quite a lot based on the value of that house. Ever heard of council tax? It's nearly three grand a year for some people ... People can be sent to jail for refusing to pay it.

The hard of thinking really need to come to terms with the concept that speculating about ways of "doing things differently" does not necessarily mean "doing things worse", or doing more of a bad thing. It could just be a fairer, easier to administer way of doing the same thing.

pocketvenuss · 06/01/2023 10:47

It wouldn’t be payable until the house was liquidised aka sold. You can argue it’s not ‘fair’ but then you could argue tax per se isn’t fair.

But then they could never move as they could not afford to buy in the area again after selling and paying tax. So they would end up potentially living in a crumbling asset where no one benefits as they couldn't afford to upkeep but couldn't afford to move.

Alexandra2001 · 06/01/2023 11:13

Xenia · 05/01/2023 21:50

Andy anyone tempted to vote Labour in 2 years' time, Labour may well come after the equity in your house, your savings and your pension i.e. a wealth tax so be very careful before voting Labour.

Whoever wins in 2 years time will have tax more... we are a aging population with failed public services and wages so low that even those on average earnings are claiming in work benefits.

Only the state can provide certain things, roads, health defence and education... all these things are in decline and with a smaller tax base and govt borrow already at 100% of GDP....

How do you propose to fix this, growth isn't coming any time soon, do you not think if "growth" was easy, everyone would be at it?

Alexandra2001 · 06/01/2023 11:22

Ever heard of council tax? It's nearly three grand a year for some people ... People can be sent to jail for refusing to pay it

CT reform is an open door for extra revenue.. Tories wont do it because it attacks their base.. so teachers and nurses can suffer instead.

It does not rise in proportion to the value of the house... most people in an avg value property (320k) will be paying approx £2k per year.... meanwhile the most the highest band will pay is £4k, that house may well be worth millions (Cornwall)

People can be sent to jail for refusing pay any number of different taxes... thats irrelevant.

Soothsayer1 · 06/01/2023 11:59

end up potentially living in a crumbling asset where no one benefits as they couldn't afford to upkeep
Like those vast multi-million pound palaces built by celebrities for themselves but when they come to sell no one wants to buy ......they drop the price and drop the price and then it just ends up empty and crumbling into ruins

ImaginaryDragon · 06/01/2023 13:34

Mark19735 · 06/01/2023 08:22

Sigh ...

If the government of the day has decided that this is how it wants to fund services, and allows people to accrue their liability for taxes so that they become due on the sale of an asset ... you aren't being newly taxed or additionally taxed or taxed more at that point. You are settling a debt that you have previously accumulated. Just like selling your house and having to pay off any mortgage that is still outstanding.

Someone who owns a house is already being taxed quite a lot based on the value of that house. Ever heard of council tax? It's nearly three grand a year for some people ... People can be sent to jail for refusing to pay it.

The hard of thinking really need to come to terms with the concept that speculating about ways of "doing things differently" does not necessarily mean "doing things worse", or doing more of a bad thing. It could just be a fairer, easier to administer way of doing the same thing.

The hard of thinking... The Op asked if a wealth tax was the only way to go. If people want to focus on the wealth and/ or property aspect of that question, (property being one of the markers of wealth in the article linked) they are more than welcome to. This is not 1984 and you are not the thought police. If they want to speculate as to what would be fairer they are also welcome to do that.

Oldnproud · 07/01/2023 18:23

Going back to what seems to be a bone of contention and resentment - the fact that boomers are often in properties that are worth far more than they were originally bought for - it seems to need pointing out that the actual amount paid for those properties was many times higher than the on-paper purchase price. Are you aware that interest rates rose to 17% at one stage, and many people had to make huge sacrifices and juggle more than one job in order to to hang on to their homes? So-called purchase price is meaningless!

Original poster
Cuppasoupmonster · 07/01/2023 18:48

Are you aware that interest rates rose to 17% at one stage

🥱 not that crap again

OP posts:
Oldnproud · 07/01/2023 18:52

Cuppasoupmonster · 07/01/2023 18:48

Are you aware that interest rates rose to 17% at one stage

🥱 not that crap again

Explain what you mean, otherwise it is your response which is crap.