to be considering Ferber in these circumstances?

[HumanDummy2022]

Bit of a shameless AIBU for traffic, sorry! It’s more of a WWYD?

10.5 month DS. Exclusively breastfed, currently on three milk feeds a day, eats solids well - three meals a day.

For several months now he hasn’t been able to sleep for me unless he’s feeding. Attempts at swaying just result in thrashing about and shouting. He has on occasion self settled (we used the Lucy Wolfe gentle sleep solution approach) but recently teeth, colds, stomach bugs etc have gotten in the way of that.

DH can sway & sing him to sleep 90% of the time. My mum can read him books until he falls asleep on her.

I’ve tried everything but he absolutely won’t settle for me. We think it must be because I breastfeed him. He doesn’t even want a feed I don’t think, but it’s the only tool I’ve got to relax him.

Problem is he doesn’t unlatch so I have to feed him into a complete milk coma, pull him off the boob then pray he doesn’t wake on the transfer to the cot. It’s 50/50 whether he wakes and it usually takes 2-3 attempts over the course of an hour or so or feeding.

BUT, once he’s down he will generally sleep through the night. Doesn’t matter whether he’s been swayed by DH, self-settled, or has been fed.

It really gets me down that I can’t soothe my own baby to sleep. Also DH is going to go away for work for a week soon and I’m going to be screwed!

We’re considering introducing formula (as it’s too early for cow’s milk) for one feed initially to try to accelerate dropping breastfeeding. This makes me a bit sad and I’m aware if it doesn’t work I’m removing the only tool I’ve got to get him to sleep!
And/or we do Ferber. But this also seems cruel and disproportionate for a baby who sleeps through the night! But nap and bedtimes are now such an exhausting struggle.

WWYD?

Hi OP, I had to google Ferber I wasn't sure what it is. I think that some of the timings seem a little long to leave a baby that age I'm not sure I could manage it. Add to that you're trying to transition away from breastfeeding, could both together be a bit distressing? Maybe give it some time with using the bottle as well and establishing a new routine? Do you realistically need to put him down regularly or can this fall to DH until the breastfeeding is less of a crutch? Maybe feed then give to DH for a cuddle/ song?

My husband used to put our daughter to bed as she was a demon for me, she'd smell my milk/ sense me being on edge and howl. I hope you get somewhere!

I found Ferber pretty helpful. Hope you get there without driving yourself mad.

You have a 10mth old baby who sleeps exceptionally well through the night but at the moment needs comforting to initially go to sleep. I appreciate it's difficult at the moment but he's tiny and this won't last long. (Breastfed 2 babies, one was a dream sleeper, one was horrific).

Even in my darkest hours where I spent months without sleep I would never ever consider Ferber. I just couldn't do that.

I would gradually wean him onto bottles one feed at a time and then try to cut out the bedtime bottle - it might be easier once you’ve stopped breast feeding as he won’t be able to smell the milk. Ferber seems unnecessarily cruel when you are actually able to get him to sleep and he sleeps through the night!

I totally understand the frustration but my 15 month old can sometimes take an hour to wind down/settle while feeding to sleep and he then wakes multiple times at night too.

I would say that if your baby is sleeping through the night, settles for others, and doesn’t wake on transfer 50% of the time, you’ve got a pretty good thing going.

Also, don’t let it get you down that you can’t settle your own baby, you absolutely can settle him, you do so by breastfeeding him.

The Ferber book has a paragraph which talks about what to do if your child vomits on themselves from being distressed. Clean them, no eye contact or comfort, change bedding and put them back down.

I think one has lost sight of what’s reasonable if willing to allow a baby to be one so distressed they are sick in themselves.

I'd just stick with it to be honest. Probably a bit of a shit hour but through the night after that is good going. I kept just doing whatever was easiest and it's all worked out in the end.

That said, I always felt letting them cry a bit at nap time was less mean somehow so maybe start there?

That is heartbreaking

To be honest it doesn’t sound all that bad. I think it’s fairly common for 10 month olds to still wake during the night so I would just be happy you get a decent nights sleep and stick with feeding to sleep for the time being!

Breastfeeding is made to help babies to sleep. You have a lovely gentle way to get your baby to sleep, why would you introduce a really damaging method? Can't you breastfeed lying down on your bed so you don't have to move him to a cot (or move him later when in a deeper sleep). This won't be forever. In a blink he'll be a teenager.

Switch to a bed - feed to sleep then roll away. Sounds like a great sleeper already and don’t see why you need to “sleep train” - but then I couldn’t leave my baby to cry it out so wouldn’t be an option for me anyway!

You're living what most people dream of- a 10month old who sleeps through!

@RunnerDuck2020

I know.

I once missed my child crying after moving to a bigger house and not being used to the layout.

I got to him and he was a complete wreck. It took HOURS to calm him down. He was hyperventilating and shaking and clearly terrified.

It honestly was awful.

@HumanDummy2022
In the nicest way, you really need to give your head a wobble!
"It really gets me down that I can’t soothe my own baby to sleep."
Yes you can and you do by breastfeeding him! The most natural way! Breast milk is literally designed for feeding babies to sleep that's why it contains sleep hormones.

In all honesty he sounds like a pretty perfect baby - generally sleeps through and can be put down by others.

If you want to sleep train though please please don't use Ferber. It's cruel. There are much more gentle methods you can introduce but I don't know why you'd take away a superpower of feeding to sleep. It'll be invaluable in the future when you've got a poorly baby (trust me I've been there!)

I'd look at a safe floor bed set up so you can feed to sleep and roll away

Huh? But you are getting your baby to sleep. And baby sleeps for hours. So what exactly is the problem?

Can I just nip in and say it ok for you to not want to faff for an hour each evening getting the baby off to sleep.
A bottle of formula may not help.
Can you ride it out til DH comes back from his week away with work then have a rethink? Ferber is harsh but baby fed by you then shhh pat by DH could be worth a punt?

The other thing is white noise? My babies are adults now, I would have tried white noise definitely.

Hi, my last boy was exactly like this and always woke when I unlatched. I found I had to introduce a dummy. I would I match and immediately plug with a dummy and that would stop him waking.

Hope that helps

YABU

Thanks everyone for your replies. The general tone is consistent with what we’ve been feeling ourselves - that we’ve got it very good with him sleeping through the night and that we couldn’t bring ourselves to do Ferber!

Both sets of grandparents mentioned over Christmas that they had done Ferber with me and DH, which surprised us and perhaps made us think it couldn’t be that bad (I definitely have brilliantly good attachment to my parents and was fortunate to have had a wonderfully happy childhood…). But ultimately I don’t think we could put DS and ourselves through that short term distress for the sake of cutting the settling time down, even if (like us) it will do him no long term damage. The thought of him making himself sick is awful.

For those saying “but you can soothe him with breastfeeding”, I do understand that, and it’s an incredible and powerful tool! The issue is just that he doesn’t unlatch, and uses me as a dummy, and I lose my evening at the end of quite a tiring day. It’s mentally and physically v draining to have him feed for half a hour, try to transfer him, have it fail and then have to sit for another 20 minutes before trying again, and maybe again… I will try to remember that it won’t be forever though, and enjoy how much it soothes him.

For those saying to try feeding in bed and then transfer later, good idea but I think it would be a pity to introduce that now as he’s always slept quite well in his cot once he’s in it and asleep! He’s also a 98th centile baby for weight and very long - it’s very difficult to scoop him up and take him to another room while asleep without waking him. He’s also annoyingly alert and spots changes in environment easily, even I could somehow carry his white noise with me..

I think we’ll try formula in a cup (he never took to bottles - it’s all about the boob 🙄) for the middle of the day feed, as that’s one we’ll need to drop/switch to formula anyway when he goes to nursery. If he develops a taste for it maybe we’ll try it for other feeds and see if he’s keen to drop the bf for them, which I hope will make settling easier. But I won’t rush him too much and will remember everything is a phase!

Interesting @BMrs , I may try that. When he was around 4 months we tried a dummy in desperation during the sleep regression and he just spat it out, but might be worth another go, thanks.

I’d rather personally try the method than shove a dummy into my child’s mouth at that age.

Definitely this
He still needs as much of your milk as you can give him. Especially with the viruses in circulation at the moment.

I get not wanting to sit with him suckling for hours. With my (velcro child) I just decided to cut the association by putting a story book in between and change where bedtime was done. I moved to a chair in the corner of her room, quick feed and then read a story. It took a few nights of tears, but I was there, didn't leave her and she'd settle eventually without feeding. After 2-3 nights she'd almost forgotten about the milk and was happy with the story.

Thanks @TightFistedWozerk for understanding!

At the mo we alternate nights for bedtimes and DH always does the first nap (works from home) and I do a feeding nap or occasionally buggy or car nap if we’re out for the second. What usually happens on the nights where the transfer just keeps failing for me is that DH can come up quickly and rescue the situation with a bit of swaying because DS is still half asleep from feeding on me. So that’s the equivalent of the ssh pat you’re suggesting I guess. While DH is away next month it might just have to be all feeding naps / bedtimes and if the transfers fail I just have to keep trying until one works.