to be considering Ferber in these circumstances?

[HumanDummy2022]

Bit of a shameless AIBU for traffic, sorry! It’s more of a WWYD?

10.5 month DS. Exclusively breastfed, currently on three milk feeds a day, eats solids well - three meals a day.

For several months now he hasn’t been able to sleep for me unless he’s feeding. Attempts at swaying just result in thrashing about and shouting. He has on occasion self settled (we used the Lucy Wolfe gentle sleep solution approach) but recently teeth, colds, stomach bugs etc have gotten in the way of that.

DH can sway & sing him to sleep 90% of the time. My mum can read him books until he falls asleep on her.

I’ve tried everything but he absolutely won’t settle for me. We think it must be because I breastfeed him. He doesn’t even want a feed I don’t think, but it’s the only tool I’ve got to relax him.

Problem is he doesn’t unlatch so I have to feed him into a complete milk coma, pull him off the boob then pray he doesn’t wake on the transfer to the cot. It’s 50/50 whether he wakes and it usually takes 2-3 attempts over the course of an hour or so or feeding.

BUT, once he’s down he will generally sleep through the night. Doesn’t matter whether he’s been swayed by DH, self-settled, or has been fed.

It really gets me down that I can’t soothe my own baby to sleep. Also DH is going to go away for work for a week soon and I’m going to be screwed!

We’re considering introducing formula (as it’s too early for cow’s milk) for one feed initially to try to accelerate dropping breastfeeding. This makes me a bit sad and I’m aware if it doesn’t work I’m removing the only tool I’ve got to get him to sleep!
And/or we do Ferber. But this also seems cruel and disproportionate for a baby who sleeps through the night! But nap and bedtimes are now such an exhausting struggle.

WWYD?

I “breastslept” with my second until he was 8 months old. I didn’t even know it was a term until I had him! I think it started as an issue with wind/reflux but evolved into a habit. With the pressures of life generally, a toddler and a husband who worked away I was going stir crazy.

I use just chill mamma’s sleep programme and Ferber. The two combined worked a treat - tweaking our timings to the suggested schedule worked really well and meant my baby was ready for sleep. The first night it took over an hour but after that it almost just fell into place.

I honestly think I did him a favour - he wasn’t sleeping long stretches because I was disturbing him and as soon as I unlatched him he’d wake. Now he actually sleeps an appropriate length of time for his age and isn’t distressed by me leaving/having a wee/deal Ika with a toddler.

Why would you take a baby’s comfort away?

He’s only 10 months old yet sleeps through the night. That is lucky and very unusual for babies of this age.

You cannot sleep train. Sleep is developmental. They learn to do it when they’re able to do so.

ferber always elicits very strong reactions on both sides, you might find it useful to advance search some of the other threads discussing people who’ve used it

fwiw, while your baby sleeps through that night now after feeding, baby sleep can change quickly and if he has a strong feed / rock > sleep association he might start waking through the night and ferber would be useful then too

I also don’t think it’s very helpful to say that you’ve got a great thing so to accept it. At 10 months, lots of babies sleep well and it isn’t fair to try and invalidate op’s feelings of slight dread at having a bedtime which lasts hours at a time

there are other more gentle methods which could be worth a try and then keep ferber in your back pocket. It needs reall commitment though

This sounds lovely @Fathercrossmas and I would love it if it worked for me. I’ve tried feeding and then stories but at some point I have to actually put him in the cot! Then the shouting begins. Most of the time it starts before he’s even in the cot - he knows what’s next and what i’m trying to do as soon as we go into the room unless I distract him by feeding. Would you read stories then put her in the cot and then there would be tears? What did you do to comfort her? It sounds a little like the gentle sleep solution approach we tried with some success around 7 months.

He doesn’t need the feed and I never feel like he’s asking for it - it’s not even a case of having to wean him off an association. On DH’s nights I can feed him downstairs before the bath then he’ll usually settle for DH. It’s just the only thing I can do to relax him enough to sleep.

I think what a PP was suggesting was that you buy your baby a single bed, feed him to sleep and then roll away. No need to scoop up and move him to another room or bed. You could use a floor bed or bed guard if you didn’t feel ok about him being in a bed so young. But for what it’s worth, plenty of babies that young sleep like that. I feed my baby to sleep about 4/5 times a night so I get that it’s hard. The solution for me is cosleeping.

I did Ferber with my first at 15 months. I have a brilliant bond with him now that he’s big, BUT he is the least self confident child in my extended family and I will never know if I contributed to that. I know you and your DH went through it as babies too. You will never know what impact if any it had on you as children or even as adults.

So in your circumstances, no I would not do it.

We introduced a last-feed formula bottle when I was sick of lying on our spare bed for up to 90 minutes breastfeeding to sleep, but DS was about 5 months. It took DH only 15 minutes with a bottle. He still had to transfer to cot and hope for the best though - I guess you could give the bottle when already in the cot.

I didn't "lose" being able to feed to sleep as I continued breastfeeding until he was 2.

It sounds like you're doing pretty well to me! It wasn't until 1.5years my LO would go to sleep "easily".

Have you tried giving something to eat before bed? I found some baby porridge about an hour before bed helped.

You cannot sleep train and yet so many of us have and don’t post “my 3 year old needs me to rub her back to sleep and is up 4 times a night” in later years.

No. You may call it “sleep training” all you wish, but you haven’t actually trained your child to sleep. Sleep is developmental and cannot be taught.

All you have trained your child to do is not to seek comfort or help from the people supposed to give it.

No, you’ve “trained” them that they don’t need the comfort because they’re secure and comfortable to put themselves back to sleep in their environment

Incorrect. But that is of course what you have to believe so you don’t feel guilty about neglecting your child and ignoring them when they need you.

Proof? If that was the case there would be millions of children who never seek their parents comfort at all- it’s bs!

I never felt guilty about shh pat, should I? 🤔

I don’t care about sleep training either way, but I know loads of older children who have been like this at some points whether they were sleep trained or not

Ferber is cruel and i'm suprised people still consider using it tbh, and how much it is discussed on here with all that is known about babies emotional needs.

You feeding him to sleep is how he settles with you, so i'm confused why you say you 'can't settle him to sleep'.My 14mo DD is the same, she will go to sleep with dad/grandma/childminder most of the time for day naps bedtine and night wakings (of which there are usually 3 on average) i have to feed her to sleep then gently unlatch her too, which usually takes afew attempts.She has never taken formula/bottle.

I think YABU as you have 3 major pluses already compared to many in that he sleeps through the night, your DH can settle him, and that he takes formula!

The best way is to carry on the gentle approach your doing and if you want stop b/f just get DH to give the formula replacements, gradually increasing these.

Babies will always have more clingier patches, where they need more intensive settling and increased closeness for various reasons, but many times its a phase that passes.

Potentially controversial, but does your DH absolutely have to go away next month? Because that seems like the major issue here, and if he wasn't going, it would be okay?

You wouldn't be able to go on a work trip (if you were back at work) presumably, so is there no scope for him to say his child is too young, and he can't go, yet? Or at least shorten the duration of the trip?

Does he have to go away with work often?

@Mummyof287 Maybe I need to adjust my thinking around it. As I know he’s perfectly capable of self settling (babbling to himself in his cot then drifting off) because he’s done it before, and will also sleep with swaying or being read to by someone other than me, I see it as some kind of failing that I have to “resort” to feeding to sleep.

PPs have talked about taking away his comfort by not bf, which I find quite unfair - its not really a sleep association for him because when DH settles him his last feed is around 45 mins before they go into his bedroom. He doesn’t need it to be relax and comforted to sleep. So why does he need it with me? Why is it absolutely impossible for me to comfort him any other way? It’s maddening!

I should also clarify there is no such thing as “gently” unlatching anymore with my DS. Even when deeply asleep I can’t gently break the seal and prise him off - he roots like a newborn in his sleep and if he doesn’t get the boob back he whinges (and I don’t mean that in a harsh way, it’s just not crying or shouting but something inbetween!).

So these days I have to very carefully stand up while still feeding him (killing my back / he’s huge!), wait for a brief pause in his suckling then literally drag him off the boob (my poor nipples must be getting stretched 😂) and put him on my
shoulder and start swaying like crazy for a few minutes then put him in the cot. A lot of the time though he’ll wake on my shoulder and the only option is either calling DH to step in while he’s still sleepy or starting the feeding process again.

If I could feed him to sleep, unlatch him and pop him in the cot like I used to, I’d be fine with it. It’s the human dummy and lengthy process that’s the issue.

We also hoped this was a short phase but it must have been at least 4 months of him not settling for me any other way, which is why it’s getting a bit trying.

Another clarification - he’s never had formula. That’s just something I’m considering in order to gently move him away from bf and hopefully it will help him relax with me other than by feeding.

Anyway, DH and I discussed this morning and we just can’t get on board with doing Ferber but once he gets over his latest cold we might introduce him to formula.

@Postapocalypticcowgirl Good idea but I’m reluctant to ask DH to do that. He never goes away with work and works from home 5 days a week (I know - I’m very lucky!) so actually barely sees his colleagues or leaves the house. He is absolutely a 50/50 parent the rest of the time and this is a great opportunity for him so I’m keen for him to go. DS and I will survive! My parents may be able to stay a few nights and work their magic too hopefully!

Lol ok

Out of interest, do you think ferber babies never ever cry about anything again, given they think their care givers will just ignore them?

Of course, children like all of us have good nights and bad nights- feel ill, teeth, etc- but if you are rocking your toddler to sleep for hours near on every night I don’t think it’s a sign of superior parenting

Fucking hell. That’s absolutely heartbreaking. How could anyone justify something like that. Barbaric. And I’m someone who ended up hallucinating with sleep deprivation. It was dreadful and I’m afraid to go through it again, if I’m lucky enough… but it could never have justified such a cruel response from me.

I didn’t say anything about superior parenting. Just that there’s no guarantee either way, if your measure of parenting success is a >3yo who doesn’t need stroking to sleep and doesn’t wake several times a night. IME most older children are sleeping through whatever their parents did, and the ones who don’t likely would have been like that whatever you did. What parents choose to do when they are babies wrt sleep is up to them and I don’t have any opinion on it

@amoobaa

It’s frankly vile.

I have two babies who were patchy sleepers.

Older just needed more reassurance and woke frequently but was broadly fine by 3. Still needs less sleep than his peers aged 10.

Second has a lactose intolerance and once that was resolved he slept like a champion and still does. Will go upstairs and put himself to bed if he’s tired.

I just don’t think leaving anyone to cry is the right thing to do.

Wtf did I just read?!

If you can do this, just give your child to SS now.

@RoomOfRequirement

And yet there is thread upon thread telling people to try it.

Could you please point out any post that says it’s ok to leave your baby to the point they vomit on themselves? Most children who have had ferber sleep training most certainly do not vomit on themselves nor would their parents say it’s ok