To ask for dependents or compassionate leave ?

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My MIL is dying given days on Wed. She has been unwell for 5/6 weeks. Last night DH came home from hospital as very unwell shivers temp etc. DS 6 threw up earlier in evening. All in one bed. DD is 10. Very little sleep. We also explained to both children re MIL dying.

Myself and DH have obviously had very little sleep over past few weeks.

I was due to work today however I just couldn't face it and felt needed to be with DC especially DS who wasn't well.

Spoke to manager who just left long silences on the phone. She knows mil has been extremely unwell and I haven't asked for any other time off.

She asked how I would like to take time off, I said I can holiday but wasn't sure whether dependents leave or compassionate leave would be appropriate. She replied she didn't know. She said also kept hammering home the point about letting them know when the inevitable happens. She asked when kids are back at school.

I work in emergency service non front line extremely busy but not core area and never take or ask for either. I work part time and 1 day at home. Working from home has also saved them time previously if DC have been ill etc not needing holiday etc

Was it unreasonable in the circumstances to be offered time off or told not to worry ?? I was a bit peed off and now really worried about needing time off going forward ?

How much time would I need to support DH. There is only him and SIL. My children were very close to their nan also. I have known mil 26 years.

I think this sad situation warrants taking sick leave. Worry about the sickness markers later.
Your MIL is dying, your child and DH are ill and you're getting burnt out.
Take the sick leave

I wonder if the países/silences by your manager we’re her giving you the opportunity to say whether it was compassionate/dependants/carers/sickness (for yourself) or annual leave that you were going to ask for?

when my mother was dying and in intensive care for 2 weeks I rang work and explained the situation and explained I would not be back until we knew what was happening. In the end I was actually off for 6 weeks from the day she was admitted to hospital until 2 days after her funeral. I wasn’t paid at all during that time so had to take what annual leave I had available (about 9 days) and work a couple of weekends ‘on-call’ from home so that I wasn’t completely penniless.

Whilst it is a very sad and stressful situation for your family, your entitlement to time off will be limited to your contractual position.
It would be nice if your employer gave additional leave, but there are cost and practicality constraints to this.
If you are stressed enough for sick leave then take sick leave, otherwise take annual leave.

I felt the same when my cat died. The trouble is, it’s very difficult for an organisation to account for everybody’s circumstances, which is why I hate things like ‘up to management discretion’. Which, whilst giving flexibility, also brings uncertainty and the potential for unfairness, perceived or otherwise. With clear policies in place, at least people know what to expect and can make their plans accordingly.

At the very least annual leave should have been agreed to.

@DomesticShortHair I agree with about clear policies, as without them, discretion can vary according to the manager and their attitude, or just whether or not they like you.

My organisation gives a week's paid compassionate leave for death of a parent - this wouldn't qualify ordinarily as any compassionate leave.

Dependents leave is for finding emergency childcare for example, it's not designed so you are paid to look after your children, even when they're sick or grieving.

Your paid options are usually annual leave or if you feel stressed / exhausted / unable to work, then a sick note which as you say will trigger absences.

It's tough, but the organisation legally doesn't need to pay you when you're not working.

I wish you well for the next days and weeks ahead - a really tough time for your family, and I hope you eventually find some peace and comfort

it would be reasonable to get dependents leave from now till the kids return to school. sorry for your imminent loss, it's a tough time. but I wouldn't normally expect lengthy leave for this situation, it's only because your DH is ill and can't be expected to cope with anything else other that his mum's situation and his own. He will need significant time off but you should mostly be able to work your normal pattern, apart from the funeral date.

Your MIL and FIL generally are counted as your close family. However compassionate leave in my experience is generally for final hours/ immediately following death.

Dependants leave is a statutory right in the UK which is designed for short term care when there is no alternative for your children/ other dependents. Generally only expected to be a day or two when it's short notice/ emergency. Longer periods can be requested but that is generally non paid. Payment of dependants leave is statutory minimum or at managers discretion for full pay if memory serves.

As others have said, sickness for stress is your best option. It's not a lie, it's true and would buy you some much needed time to not have to juggle and focus on your family at this difficult time. Sending love 💐

I honestly hate this attitude. He won't be coping with anything esle regardless of the situation as his mother is dying. So if he wasn't ill he would be at the hospital full time it's a days situation.

Why would I mostly be able to work, my DH has suffered and suffering significant loss and stress so will my children who knows the effects and they will require support. DH only has SIL. Fil passed some years ago

You could just email your manager and state you’d like to take it as dependent’s leave as your dcs are ill and your dh as well and unable to care for them. She asked you how you would like to take it. If an issue arises from this, it is up to her to sort, not the other way around, surely?

We have policy but everything is manager's descretion including length of time. I do expect some sort of response when I phoned in and not lengthy silence ? Surely there is some onus on an manager of people to respond with what I could take it as ?

Except when I asked whether it qualified as dependents or anything she didn't know

You have a statutory we tile net to reasonable time off for dependents and can take parental leave if you need to but neither option is paid. I assume you were asking for paid leave? If so, annual leave really is the only option unless your workplace has a particularly generous

I think comparing the death of a child (your colleague's grandchild) to the possible imminent passing of a grandmother/mother in law is apples and pears. Death is a part of life and whilst grief is horrible in all forms it is particularly cruel in the event of a child who hasn't had the opportunity to live a life. Please don't use this as a comparison at work as I suspect it would be ill received.

If dependents leave is paid, I’d take that for the next few days. If not, I’d take A/L.

Then when MIL dies I would ask them to take a couple more days leave and say i was happy for it to be compassionate or annual leave and leave that up to them to confirm.

I’m really sorry for you though, that is a lot at once. Hope you stay clear of the bug!

Try and split out the reasons for why you need the leave, and simplify the situation. At the bare bones of it, your kids are sick and you have no one to care for them other than you. The reasons for that, although dreadful for you, aren't overly relevant as to why you need time off. As someone said previously, dependents leave is for emergencies with childcare to give you time to make other arrangements. So I would tell your boss that you will be taking a day or two as dependents leave (any more than that goes against what the policy is for). Use that time to work out what you are going to do for the coming few days. You may wish to take parental leave longer term, as you have children that might be an option.

And I'm so sorry you are going through this, it must be heartbreaking for you and for your dh and your children too.

If you were in my team I'd offer to let you take annual leave at short notice without the 2 weeks notice requirement, but not compassionate leave. I had a team member with a relative dying "imminently" but it took 5 months for them to die. She was offered 2 days CL (one to arrange funeral, one to attend funeral) and the rest had to be annual leave.

I appreciate things are difficult, but it's not your employer's responsibility to fix things for you, they just pay you to do a job. If taking sick leave will trigger disciplinary proceedings, then you need to get through it and tough it out.

Sorry you're going through a tough time, it happens to everyone though, employers can't have everyone taking chunks of time off on top of annual leave everytime they want to.

As it’s the managers discretion, perhaps the silence was where they were expecting you to make your case? As you identified, there’s no automatic policy for leave in your circumstances, so you need to explain why leave should be granted. How can they respond what your options are, when you haven’t convinced them what they should be looking at and why?

As it’s down to their discretion, your manager can’t just give out leave without justification. Not only do they have their own management to answer to, but also your colleagues who will have to pick up the slack. So it’s not a decision that should be taken lightly. If you wanted discretionary compassionate leave, and there may well be very good reasons for it, then I feel the onus is on you to provide the compelling reasons to the manager. As I say, this is why I’m not a fan of management discretion in these circumstances, it often causes more problems than it tries to solve.

You could alternatively request parental leave but this would normally be unpaid.

I haven't used as comparison at work And as stated its no comparison to a life not lead. But 4 paid weeks compassionate leave was granted but perhaps to travel also GS lived 250 miles away.

The point is manager's descretion also breeds discontent

@LovedFedAndNoonesDead that's awful. You should have been signed off.
Bereavement policies are in the dark ages.
My DF died suddenly and unexpectedly. I was off two weeks and made to work back every single hour in overtime. (In my 20s)
When another young member of staff lost their dad they got signed off and paid. I processed the timesheets so checked what to put his through as "yes I supposed it will have to be "
That was the trigger I needed to leave and retrain.

When my DM died suddenly I was signed off for a month. (Different employer but didn't want that to worry about too)

I can understand people being sad when a pet dies but please stop comparing animals to people it's really disrespectful.

I stated all the facts in the conversation about why I would not be in work. They were aware MIL was gravely ill before Christmas. I have kept them updated the whole way through to minimise disruption

Quite apart from the MIL, your child is sick so you need to take time off to care for them (given than DP is unavailable to do so).

The loss of my cat affected me much more tan the loss of my parents. My animals are much more important to me than the humans in my life. Please stop comparing how my grief affects me compared to your own. It’s really disrespectful.

So sorry for your loss. Dreadful situation

Have you spoken to your union?

mine were very helpful in a related situation and got things sorted out the same day.