Jordan Peterson - what is the deal?

[glittertinsel]

I know this guy has been around a while, but I only bothered watching some if his YouTube stuff recently. My impressions are -

He is very articulate

I alternate between thinking he is very insightful and feeling irritated by the 'mansplaining' tone of it all

Some people say he is offensive / misogynist, but I haven't really encountered that??

I get vibes from him of an evangelical (slightly peculiar / deranged?) nature underneath the calm and logical veneer?

When interviewed by Piers Morgan, why did he start crying very suddenly out of nowhere? What was all that about?

Something seems 'off', but also he makes a lot of sense in some ways.

AIBU?

I have mixed feelings about him. He is thoughtful and insightful on many topics but he really doesn’t get women.

I heard an idea he put forward recently about the how the patriarchy wasn’t real because actually in the past everyone had it bad not just women.

I mean would he apply that insight to impoverished Afghanistan for example where for sure everyone is poor and so has a hard life but women and girls have it so much worse under the patriarchal system in operation there. He genuinely genuinely cannot apply his rational mind to looking at difficulties women and girls experience due specifically to systemic mistreatment by men. He has a complete blind spot where women and girls are concerned.

Yes I had the same thoughts, Stickytoff.

I like his '“grow the hell up, accept some responsibility, live an honorable life.” suggestion aimed at young men, mainly because I agree 😂

But yeah, not so keen on his 'enforced monogamy will stop men killing people' because... well, that's bullshit isn't it?
Also, who does he suggest should marry these horrible angry men for the good of society? No thanks.

I find him absolutely fascinating. In terms of understanding his advocacy for women, it's difficult. Much of his work isn't main steam, rather it's most click bait extracts / contentious headlines which don't tell the larger story he paints. He's incredibly critical of men if you know his work.. I've listened to so many of his lectures and while I didn't agree with everything, I had to conclude that rather than an advocate of patriarchy, he's an advocate of a 'functioning' society. His arguments for this are complex and extremely fascinating. One of the by products of this notion of a functioning society, if men actually embraced his guidance (''grow the hell up'', stop watching porn, buying sex, took responsibility, applied themselves in their lives etc), would be that some of the issues women face (such as the epidemic of violence, which is male violence) would abate.

But in the meantime before men step up and do all this work that they apparently need, he has a lot to say about how women need to tolerate this work in progress that is the abusive male. In fairness I agree with a huge amount he has to say around taking personal responsibility and being realistic about life but that is why I think women need to have the financial independence or at least capability to leave abusive men.

I agree with most of the above!

it’s like cheering someone on, willing them to win, shouting support… then they fall over and wreck themselves near the finish line and you think “nah, you ruined that mate” 😂 that’s how I feel watching most of his stuff!

“yep! Yes! Absolutely! Agree totally! How insightful! Wait… whoa hang on a minute… no, no, very no”

I really want to like him fully but I don’t suppose you can ever find someone you agree with 100% on everything? Although the way he frames women sometimes really irks me and makes me think I’m missing some shady undertone to what he says?

If you Google "Jordan Peterson misogyny" you will see plenty of examples of his awful incel-supporting attitude.

I’m not sure I hear him saying women need to tolerate shitty behaviour. His argument that we have personal agency appeals to me & helped spur me to dig myself out of the financial mess I was in when I separated from my violent abusive ex. Never again will I rely on a man for financial security. I accept the limitations of my life as a working single mum and the sacrifices that implies.

I do also feel it’s a choice to juggle motherhood & full time work and not one every woman is willing to make. Like he says you’re going to pay for every choice you make and every choice you don’t make.

As a female I don’t feel mistreated and males aren’t affecting my life in a negative way.

I've learned so much from him. Have been a long time fan of his lectures and insights. Social media loves to twist his words and knock him down.

He's raised concepts I've never considered and influenced my thinking in a way few writers/thinkers ever have.

I think he's brilliant.

But he's not straight forward. He can't be easily pigeon holed and he makes me uncomfortable at times.

Good. We should feel uncomfortable when challenged.

He's not easy to like. He's brittle and vulnerable and often angry. He's becoming ever more religious which I find fascinating and confusing.

Basically if you want to be made to think. Listen to him. But you may not like it.

He cries in almost every interview he does. Very unstable man.

He absolutely does not support incels. I've seen many clips taken out of context in that stupid way people do to get a rise.

I know this because years ago when my partner showed me a clip of him Immediately hated him, I took him up completely wrong and thought he hated women 🤣 then I started watching his lectures, interviews, read a book, listened to the podcasts and I cant get enough of him I think hes brilliant.

He has genuinely changed my life is some small ways and a couple of large ways. My partner and I communicate MUCH more effectively for one. I am a thousand times more assertive than I used to be and I shit you not...people treat me differently. I was promoted within 10 months of starting at a new job, mainly using his techniques. I feel like a brand new person

To op asking why he randomly cried, he has spoken a lot on how hearing the problems of indivduals upset him, hearing the amount of pain and hardship people go through while trying to motivate them to move forward, weighs him down and make him sad like many of us. Hes had a horrific time with his own health, his daughter's and his wife's, she was at deaths door a few years ago as was he, plus hes always been an emotional guy who cries,he says that himself.

He's not easy to like. He's brittle and vulnerable and often angry. He's becoming ever more religious which I find fascinating and confusing.

That's another thing. Hes made me think about religion more. Before, I would roll my eyes at anything slightly religious. I'm not saying I'm a believer now 😂 but he made me think about it a lot more and I'm less ignorant to a lot of things.

I have similarly mixed feelings to other posters. I don’t think he understands women at all. But then he has some good stuff to say about other things. I find him sometimes a bit irritating and mansplainy, but sometimes incredibly insightful and willing to say what others are thinking but might not dare articulate for fear of being cancelled or piled on.

People should watch his videos and interviews fully before deciding what they think. Such a brilliant mind

Maybe consider that what is making people feel ‘uncomfortable’ is Peterson’s entrenched dislike of equality, his equation of ‘patriarchy’ with ‘competence’, and his deeply essentialist and frankly frightening ideas about women?

I don’t think he understands women at all
Have you seen any of the interviews or chats with him with his wife ? Do you know about the work he did for years with female lawyers on assertiveness and how he helped them get further in their careers , quicker? Some very interesting stuff. His college lectures are fantastic too.

Maybe consider that what is making people feel ‘uncomfortable’ is Peterson’s entrenched dislike of equality, his equation of ‘patriarchy’ with ‘competence’, and his deeply essentialist and frankly frightening ideas about women?

I suppose we all just interpret things differently .I dont see a drop of this in anything he says. I used to for a little while, When I just heard my partner playing clips in the background .

Peterson’s entrenched dislike of equality
🤣

Theres a huge difference between equality of outcome and equality of opportunity.

I'm all for equality of opportunity. Anything else is ridiculous

Following with interest

I wouldn't kick him out of bed for farting

I think I read somewhere he exclusively eats red meat and that his health has improved a lot.

I have not read or listened to much of him so now I am intrigued.

I think I read somewhere he exclusively eats red meat and that his health has improved a lot.

Yes. It was his daughter who made him try this. She had done it and has seemed to have cured herself of the autoimmune diseases she suffered with since childhood.

It really is fascinating the shit that family have been through with illnesses.

He has spoken about his support of "enforced monogamy" i.e. forcing women to have sex with men chosen for them. He is literally disgusting and I don't know how any woman (or decent man) could support his views.