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AIBU?

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Suicide because of Benefits Being Stopped

235 replies

StridTheKiller · 26/12/2022 13:58

Another casualty of our brutal benefits system. RIP.

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/dad-who-took-life-days-28813953

OP posts:
YoBeaches · 26/12/2022 19:49

Cuppasoupmonster · 26/12/2022 19:43

The problem is part time working/family UC is too generous and disabled/single people benefits are too low.

I think the problem is the volume of people that receive 'something' as opposed to a more confined group of people receiving something 'meaningful'.

Many wages are far below reasonable living costs and being topped up by UC. Many people claim fraudulently to some degree.

If people were paid proper wages for genuine work (including care work in the family) then the number of people claiming would reduce to create more to go round

There absolutely should be help available. But not government subsiding poor wages and enabling big corp profits.

Cuppasoupmonster · 26/12/2022 19:50

@YoBeaches yes I agree with that.

Gilead · 26/12/2022 19:56

There are very few fraudulent claims. It’s hard to do these days. It runs at about 0.04% but that includes dwp error too.

Sugarplumfairy65 · 26/12/2022 20:08

usernamealreadytaken · 26/12/2022 17:09

@helford in France benefits are only paid at that rate if you have worked long enough to qualify, and are only payable for two years. I think many in the UK would vote for that, would you?

That's unemployment benefits not disability benefits

Spectre8 · 26/12/2022 20:11

Angeldelight81 · 26/12/2022 18:23

And yet it transpires that they’re actually was a bottomless pit when it came to supplying dame Malones, PPE company with a contract.
If a war starts tomorrow, the money will be found.

Money will be printed and to what detriment to the overall economics...cannot jsut print money with no consequence and we all pay it back eventually. We are all paying for covid now aren't we. So no there really isn't a bottomless pit of money with zero consequence

But sure let's keep printing money or taxing people to fund welfare state and one day it will all collapse and what then...

Noone is saying there shouldn't be any help but this situation is getting ridiculous already where a welfare state is more than taxes collected. Its basic maths or any household would budget would say if you have less coming in and more going out eventually that won't be sustainable.

Cuppasoupmonster · 26/12/2022 20:12

If people were paid proper wages for genuine work (including care work in the family) then the number of people claiming would reduce

What should be the new ‘minimum wage’ or living wage, in your opinion? Genuinely wondering

AhBallix · 26/12/2022 20:14

Many people claim fraudulently to some degree.

Any evidence to support this @YoBeaches?

givethistokevin · 26/12/2022 20:19

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Woman talking about her Dads death and that's what you take from it? Sad

Spectre8 · 26/12/2022 20:25

Cuppasoupmonster · 26/12/2022 20:12

If people were paid proper wages for genuine work (including care work in the family) then the number of people claiming would reduce

What should be the new ‘minimum wage’ or living wage, in your opinion? Genuinely wondering

At the very least kept up with inflation. Public sector have had pay freezes for years. A wage today is in some jobs almost 30% less than it was many years ago. An effective 30% pay cut. Thats why people are struggling. If wages had kept up peolle wouldnt be struggling so much. I get during these recession cycles we go through we have to tighten belts etc but last recession I went through tightening belts meant no luxuries like no holidays not meaning I can't afford to heat my house.

Surely anyone can see the problem that wages in many sectors have fallen behind so much that its no wonder people struggle and when you can work 16hrs and get a top up that earns you almost the same money but you don't work as many hours...I mean let's be honest thays pretty attractive.

YoBeaches · 26/12/2022 20:28

AhBallix · 26/12/2022 20:14

Many people claim fraudulently to some degree.

Any evidence to support this @YoBeaches?

Yes.

IndieK1d · 26/12/2022 20:31

YoBeaches · 26/12/2022 20:28

Yes.

Source then?

Funnywonder · 26/12/2022 20:36

@YoBeaches I would be very interested in a link or some sort of direction to your evidence. Hint - not 'my cousin's friend's budgie says that Kev from down the road is taking cash in hand ...'

C4tastrophe · 26/12/2022 20:37

One answer could be spin off the unemployment benefits to a private company, make the payment transparent ( reduce NI accordingly) and let them run it, like in Switzerland.

YoBeaches · 26/12/2022 20:39

Cuppasoupmonster · 26/12/2022 20:12

If people were paid proper wages for genuine work (including care work in the family) then the number of people claiming would reduce

What should be the new ‘minimum wage’ or living wage, in your opinion? Genuinely wondering

I don't know as there is a lot of data required to reach reasonable and variable conclusions.

But £1300 take home for an average month with current inflation isn't sustainable in many parts of the UK with high population. And many don't work full time hours because the impact to other benefits isn't worth it.

The system does need an overhaul. The DWP itself is outdated and expensive to operate with no investment over the years.

People who can work should, and be fairly rewarded. People who can't work should be catered for to a good standard. People who take the piss should be identified and penalised. Our system doesn't do well in achieving those three things.

hay5689 · 26/12/2022 20:44

Gilead · 26/12/2022 19:56

There are very few fraudulent claims. It’s hard to do these days. It runs at about 0.04% but that includes dwp error too.

That's the percentage that get caught I take it? I'm not proud to admit it but I claimed fraudulently for years and got away with it quite easily. It's extremely common and very easy to do. I have zero excuses because it wasn't because I was hard up, I was just greedy and did it because I could. I know so many people playing the system and winning at it I'd be very surprised if the figures are that low.

YoBeaches · 26/12/2022 20:44

Funnywonder · 26/12/2022 20:36

@YoBeaches I would be very interested in a link or some sort of direction to your evidence. Hint - not 'my cousin's friend's budgie says that Kev from down the road is taking cash in hand ...'

It's readily available on the governments website as they are obliged to report.

Fraud for 2021 was up to 3.0% or £6.5bn.

Equally underpayments are made yearly due to admin errors

It's a shambles.

Florenz · 26/12/2022 21:07

The government has no idea of the level of fraud, how could they? If they knew who was claiming fraudulently they could stop their claim and charge them with benefit fraud. Any figures are just estimates.

Funnywonder · 26/12/2022 21:07

It seems that 4% of welfare expenditure in 21/22 was 'fraud and error'.

Unfortunately, the government does not break down the 'fraud and error' component of their statistics, so how is it possible to know what is fraud and what is an overpayment?

YoBeaches · 26/12/2022 21:26

Funnywonder · 26/12/2022 21:07

It seems that 4% of welfare expenditure in 21/22 was 'fraud and error'.

Unfortunately, the government does not break down the 'fraud and error' component of their statistics, so how is it possible to know what is fraud and what is an overpayment?

They do if you read the detail of the reports.

YoBeaches · 26/12/2022 21:30

Florenz · 26/12/2022 21:07

The government has no idea of the level of fraud, how could they? If they knew who was claiming fraudulently they could stop their claim and charge them with benefit fraud. Any figures are just estimates.

Because most fraud isn't the entire claim itself, but the conditions, evidence and durations surrounding a claim which lead to overpayments.

We're not talking thousands of people faking it, but rather thousands of people claiming when they shouldn't have. Misalignment with timing of clinical records and continued payments, or the time at which fraud is suspected to stopping a claim is months and months of payments. Sometimes years.

Onnabugeisha · 26/12/2022 22:09

YoBeaches · 26/12/2022 21:30

Because most fraud isn't the entire claim itself, but the conditions, evidence and durations surrounding a claim which lead to overpayments.

We're not talking thousands of people faking it, but rather thousands of people claiming when they shouldn't have. Misalignment with timing of clinical records and continued payments, or the time at which fraud is suspected to stopping a claim is months and months of payments. Sometimes years.

In the stats I think most benefit fraud was due to UC claimants having undeclared partners?(so the “virtuous” working benefits claimants not the “scrounging” nonworking disabled) And the 4% of “error and fraud” was mostly error, not fraud?

Going to see if I can find the break out again to post.

Puppamumma · 26/12/2022 22:09

Florenz · 26/12/2022 18:08

I've got little to no sympathy to people who miss or are late for DWP appointments. It's literally the only thing they have to do and their money is dependent on it. Get an early bus. Set an alarm on the phone. Make it your utmost priority to be there on time. People with jobs have to be on time every day.

Bus in our area is supposed to be every 11 minutes. I waited 45 minutes for bus few days ago do you really think people deserve to have their benefits cut because of things outside of their control ?. I wish everyone who complains about the generous system loses their job and gets a big wake up call to the reality of being ill or desperate to working

Puppamumma · 26/12/2022 22:18

Notallroses · 26/12/2022 18:22

Name change for obvious reasons.

A year ago I made an enormous mistake. I left my job through ill health and went to tribunal and claimed Universal Credit. After claiming benefits I received a payout through employment tribunal, got holiday pay returned and was subsequently awarded backdated PIP. I thought I was fine because I thought you were allowed up to £16,000 and I only had £13,000. What I didn't realise was that you can have up to £16,000 but anything over £6,000 counts as bringing in an income regardless if it does or not, and benefits are reduced accordingly.

I carried on thinking I was within the threshold and used the excess money to pay off debts I had been drowning in since my mother died a decade ago. Paying these debts flagged up on my credit file and the next thing I knew my benefits were stopped and I was being investigated for fraud and had to hand over all of my financial details which I willingly did as I genuinely didn't think I had done anything wrong at that point. The most I ever had was £13,000 but the decision maker decided I had over £20,000, had never been entitled to any benefit and owed them £25,400.

I was terrified. I thought I was going to prison and would get a criminal record. In shock because I knew I had never possessed over £20,000 I'm my life, I insisted on a mandatory reconsideration. The new decision maker found that I had only ever had £13,000, was always entitled to a reduced amount of benefit and because I used the money to repay debts which I had been struggling with for years I was found not to have deprived myself of capital. And the overpayment? £733.00! less than one month's money!

This happened over Christmas 2021 and I didn't get the final outcome until the spring. I went through months of hell, ended up feeling suicidal because I thought I was going to prison and my mental health suffered. The Jobcentre sent the police to my door to do a welfare check because they were concerned I may harm myself as a result. And all along the original decision maker had made a huge mistake. I genuinely didn't realize my own original mistake and believed I was allowed more in savings. The case was found in my favour and I was exonerated. It is a bit of a jump from £733.00 to £25,400. The case was closed and I was told to repay £10 per month. I've never had a formal apology and was too weary and Ill from the experience to complain about the original decision maker. I was just thankful it had been properly sorted out.

The DWP really do make huge mistakes sometimes. My mistake of course was not properly reading and understanding the rules, but their sums were like a fairy tale which I was able to prove was wrong. Had I not insisted on a mandatory reconsideration my experience could have ended very differently.

Oh you poor love .I hope your managing okay now. Nobody understands how cruel the benefits system is till their in it. I'm anorexic and have had assessment where it's been nothing but lies but I'm too ill to face going through appeal because I had my relative dying of cancer. I honestly don't know how the DWP can live with how they treat people

XenoBitch · 26/12/2022 22:24

Onnabugeisha · 26/12/2022 18:34

You do know the temporary increase of £20/week was not given to those on legacy disability benefits of ESA? Or those disabled already on UC prior to the uplift?

So, literally disabled got less than the unemployed….

Disabled on UC did get the uplift. The uplift was applied to the basic amount that every on UC gets. I am in the LCWRA group and got it.

Livelovebehappy · 26/12/2022 22:26

Dovahh · 26/12/2022 19:06

Our benefits system is an absolute disgrace , yes it does assist people but in actual fact it's not the great help that the dwp will have you believe .
The fact that carers allowance is £69.70 per week to care for loved ones with disabilities is completely unacceptable , but to then have this classed as an income to be taxed on tells you everything that is wrong with the benefits system .
Tv shows like benefits Britain are also picking the worst examples of people on benefits it's a great piece of Tory propaganda.

I work full time my husband is unable to work due to illness so stays home taking care of our 2 children one of which has additional needs .
We do get help from universal credit with our rent but not much more on top , money is tight we make it work but it's not easy it's a lot of adjusting the budget each month to accommodate for things like holidays , birthdays etc

Benefits were never meant to cover holidays and birthday presents. Those are ‘wants’ and not ‘needs’. Sad you can’t afford a holiday, but many people working full time with no access to benefits can’t afford holidays either.