Is this person a 'friend'

[Gruffalo101]

A bit of a long one. I have known this person (Angela) for about 20 years and met her through another friend, but they subsequently fell out due to the others jealousy of a boyfriend Angela had at the time. I was a sort of casualty of that too.

For context :-Angela has a really good job it pays very well and she is quite senior. She drives a large expensive car has her own home and buys herself nice things, not all the time, but usually quality products.

I am a joe bloggs sort of person , just mainstream job (very recently retired) drive an ordinary car but have my own home. I have similar tastes to Angela (but since putting on weight not been able to indulge my love of fashion so much. (Currently losing weight to get myself in better shape).

Over the years in a group of 3 single women we have fallen into the routine of having birthday lunches which the other 2 pay for and usually the 2 paying also club together to get a present. For regular birthdays this is usually @ £25 each and its usually something from boden/white company/ jigsaw, ( or that ilk)even if it is just a voucher.

Angelas last birthday was a big birthday and the other 2 of us bought a present to the value of over £230... a lovely pair of earrings. The third person in the group (Betty) I met through Angela but I don't know her as well but single girls stick together and she is a nice person. Angela would see Betty through work but I live and work about 60 miles away.

Bettys big birthday was 6 months before Angela's and this worked out similarly. My next big birthday is in 3 years , as I'm a bit younger.

So over the last few years there has been for me a noticeable 'reduction' in my gifts , which is is stark contrast to the other gifts that are given. They know where I buy my clothes and what I like /don't like when it comes to clothes, and housewares etc To be clear I do buy things from regular stores so this isn't that i dont. But there seems to be a creeping element of this will do Gruffalo but not for the others.

So for Christmas this year from Angela I have just received a small box of 3 tiny pots , which I looked up online at 17.99 from Amazon and a small packet of tissues. I don't normally look up the prices but as i have noticed this for the last few years i did this year, because I really do feel offended. I hunted down a lovely scarf to go with her new coat and enclosed a book for her Christmas present. Last year i gave her a book and beautiful salad server's. She thanked me for the book., nothing else.

We have a group whatsapp and she doesn't answer any incidental texts but when it comes to organising the night out she will send messages to me such as ' really looking forward to the meet up' etc which contradicts her other behaviour.

It isn't so much the value of the gifts is just appears to be a deliberate choice. This also preceded my retirement by several years so it isn't a consideration to that. They also see the clothes I wear , eg Wrap, Poetry interspersed with M&s and the like. Along with the texts issue I feel I am being sidelined to some degree and this is her less than subtle way of doing it.

So AIBU to feel like this and if so, what to do or say, if anything? I have resisted the urge to play tit for tat and carried on buying what I would anyway. I will never get into a row about such a thing with anyone. If the subtle message is ' I don't like you anymore' then fine I will take the notice. Just interested in different perspectives.

I suppose that depends on how you treat your friends, which is subjective.

I feel that her ignoring my texts, talking over me and other comments made, in tandem with what I perceive to be deliberate choices of gifts dont necessarily make her a very nice friend to me at the moment. This wasnt always the case.

On the other hand your view appears to be that I am not her friend because I'm questioning how i perceive she is treating me.

I don't feel that me questioning how someone treats me makes me a 'bad' friend. It means I have some self respect or maybe I'm very sensitive maybe oversensitive. It doesn't make me a bad person.or friend. Iver always treated her with respect, gone out of my way to buy her thoughtful gifts and supported her when she needed it. So if I'm not her friend in your view, then so be it.

Yes I have other friends. I have had limited physical contact with others for the last week because I have covid. Although in theory it isn't mandatory to be housebound any longer I've refrained from going out so I don't bring this to their door on the cusp of Christmas.

I have family and friends who have been in contact with me daily and relatives kindly brought me some Christmas Dinner yesterday as I'm unwell. I also had another friend drive 30 miles to drop off some Christmas pudding and treats even though I didn't have her full present available due to being unwell.

Do you think I'm an unlikeable person with no other friends ? Lol.

Thanks, seems like this is the way to go. Gruffalo...take the hint!

I understand where you are coming from. I have something like this with a friend I've known many, many years. We don't do gifts etc so that's not an issue as I requested we stop some years back. It's very difficult to explain to others how she treats me and I don't think people would understand and would minimise my feelings. If they were treated the same way they wouldn't like it.

Thanks euff, it's easy to say walk away but you're left either questions as to why you have been treated a certain way. Often we have invested alot of time in that person and feel like we've done our best as a friend but then not been treated right in return makes, me anyway, question myself . It takes alot for me to be pushed into action for something like this, much to the annoyance of one of my friends who is very forthright and doesn't put up with being treated second best by anyone. She had years of abuse from close family due to her kind nature until she had an epiphany and just had a straw that broke the camels back moment. I'm a slow burn.

Also on this kind of a forum, as you say, what can't be verbalise well are the nuances of the contact you have with someone that some wouldn't notice or would put down to overthinking.

Another friend who met Angela in my company pointed out something she did to me, that I hadn't picked up on myself. It just adds to the bigger picture but hard to put down in a public forum without it turning into war and peace as an original post. You know how your friendship has evolved over the years, what the 'ground rules' are normally and if something isn't sitting right , YOU RECOGNISE IT, listen to your gut I suppose. It is then up to us how, or if, we deal with it. Know your worth though, you deserve to be treated kindly.

Yes that was a bit of a long one. I’ve got the same situation with a long standing sort of best friend. I think it’s that I put so much thought into it not to mention the money, and she invariably gives me a load of crap, warren james earrings in a Pandora box, she gave me shampoo for my birthday last year. Im just going to tone it down a bit really so that I don’t feel so disappointed, I mean no one made me buy her a cashmere scarf for Christmas so there you go.

It does sound like this friendship has gone stale.

Not so much the gifts in isolation but the ignoring texts and talking over you in combination is quite telling. I would definitely stop texting for a while at least (I don't mean ignore back but don't instigate).

When do you think all this started?

This may be nothing but the very generous gift of the £230 earring would've really embarrassed me. Was this bought by just you and Betty - so £115 each? How did you decided to spend so much, so much more than the usual £25 each?

Even if something had happened and you've offended her in some way (maybe she thought the gifts you put thought and effort into where not nice or thoughtful).

I'm an over thinker in all areas and it causes so much stress which is why I stopped doing presents for almost all adults. I want to get them right but if you don't get it right from the recipients point of view they will not always feel that you've put thought and effort in. It's too hard to think of something right twice a year for everyone. When my group were turning 40 I spent so much time trying to think of and look for the right present to give us all and didn't even end up doing it in the end. We'd actually already stopped doing gifts but I thought it would be nice to mark this on a similar way to how we had marked earlier milestones.

I think in many cases answers won't be forthcoming even if you ask as they will deny there are any issues and make it out to be you. Maybe at some point you will come to feel you have nothing worth losing by doing so or there will be a situation when you can call her out in some way at the time. You talked about how much has been invested in the friendship. If you think about your friendship like a bad financial investment you wouldn't continue putting more money into it you would cut your losses.

You might not necessarily need to walk away, can you take a break from putting so much in? If you take the gifts situation away all you have is the friendship and behaviours to work through.

You must feel vindicated by your friend witnessing something and it not just you being sensitive.

I started noticing about 4 years ago. I was given a necklace by Angela that wasn't 'really me' and because Angela and I have similar tastes I thought it 'odd' but I skated over it and didnt think too much of it until it happened again .....and again..... and again with subsequent birthdays and Christmas. Simultaneously, the talking over me, comments and game playing with the whatsapp messages started. I put some of this down to work stress,age, menopause.

During lockdown Angela suggested weekly zoom calls just to stop isolation setting in. I still had to go 'in' to work and deal with colleagues so i didnt feel very isolated overall. Honestly i rather liked not having to socialise as much ! But both Angela and Betty worked 100% remotely and like myself, had no children or partner so it affected them more, so we did weekly group zooms between the 3 of us. Ordinarily we didn't phone each other weekly so this was a bit new.

On a few occasions I came home from work, quickly threw some food together ate it quickly and settled for the call . It was always a Monday at 7pm. So I'd be waiting for the call and nothing, but when i 'rang in' I'd be told they were out for a walk together
and wouldn't be having the call. No prior message or notification for me. Maybe I'm sensitive but I thought that was a bit rude.

The money agreement for the big birthday gifts ( as in 60 th ) as I explained above was originally arranged by Angela for Betty's big birthday at the start of this year, to which I agreed. Betty requested an overnight spa break and meal in the place of her choice.

Angela's big birthday (60th) was midway through the year and I organised the gift and kept it in a similar price bracket as we had spent on Betty, but Angela wasn't going away as such, so her physical gift was more than Betty's. In truth the equivalent wasn't spent on Angela's gift, all things considered.

The scarf I bought her def wasn't cashmere. I haven't got a bottle of shampoo yet either, maybe that'll be next year's present!! 🤔 Are we talking Alberto Balsam or designer hair 'poo ?

OP, it's a shame you didn't put more detail about the overall behaviour of Angela in your first post, as I think you'd have had more understanding. Instead, you've just had lots of people jumping on you for being materialistic and comparing monetary value of the respective gifts.

Personally, I very much doubt that many posters who have criticised you for doing this would be happy to continue buying more expensive, thoughtful gifts for someone who has started, over the last few years, to give them consistently 'lesser' presents.

I'd also stop explaining to PP why you and Betty spent £250 on Angela's present recently. You've explained multi tel times and people just aren't RTFT.

Anyway, it sounds as though you've had a few years of slowly being sidelined. Whether that's the case or not, it's how you feel and it's making you feel sad and undervalued. So definitely take a more proactive approach to 'sidelining' yourself. You sound lovely, you obviously have other lovely friends. Focus on them and quietly take yourself out of the picture.

Yes , my other friend noticing some of her behaviour without a heads up from me, was 'comforting' to know and that I wasn't just being oversensitive. I suppose I'm coming round to the realisation that she doesn't value me as a friend by how she treats me either . I don't know if I want to be reminded every birthday and Christmas of that as well.

You are right 'beauty' is in the eye of the beholder, so she might not think much of my presents to her. But in a random poll of my sister and my best friend today of the gift I received , there were sharp intakes of breath and grimaces from both😧😬 with a more robust verbal exclamation from my friend, which even for mumsnet might be censored !!! 🤐Lol. 😂

Because of how she has been with whatsapp messages I don't initiate them ordinarily anymore. Only recent one was my covid status and a Merry Christmas which I send every year in the morning. Beyond that I just don't. I tried not being petty and still responded to messages she sent even when she didn't respond to mine, but it made no difference she would respond to Betty's, never mine. Who needs that in their life? So i stopped sending them.

It's upsetting because I don't know what the issue is and I may never know . She does of course have the right to leave a friendship but what i find upsetting is how she is treating me to do that.

Good luck with your friend, euff, I hope she learns to value you.

I'm sorry this is hurting you and your feelings are valid. At the same time, this obsession with gift giving strikes me as crazy.

Four years is enough time to cast aside doubts that you're just being oversensitive - I would trust your feelings here. Friends should lift you up not make you feel like this.

Sounds like you've got lots of other lovely friends and family @Gruffalo101 and it is time to stop allowing these two to make you feel less than. Hope you feel completely better soon. 💐

Thanks fatsocatso, that's kind of you to say so and I think you are right on all counts. My op was just a reaction of it being christmas, on my own, with covid opening the present and that was what I was reacting to.

Anywho, no more explanations, thanks to everyone who responded , the good the bad and the ugly, it has helped clear my head a bit on where I am with this.

Thanks again.

Thankyou Scriabin.

This. Get token gifts acknowledge that's what they get you.

Ok, I'd put aside the gift-giving as it seems pp are hanging onto that.

What I'm getting from your post, OP, is that you're wondering if this Angela is phasing you out of her life (and you have examples or reasons to feel this way such as the unusual thoughtless gifts, etc).

As you obviously don't want to just walk away from what was a good friendship until this behaviour started, the only thing left to do is communicate. I'd send her a message or call or ask to meet up (whichever you think she'd fine most comfortable because it's likely going to be an awkward conversation) and ask if there's something wrong, if you've done anything to hurt her and let her know that you're open to discuss any problems you may have between you two, if present.

I wouldn't mention the gifts when asked as it's really notnobout the gifts per se. Just state that it's a feeling you have and you've noticed a bit of a change in your friendship but you want to make sure you both are still on the same page as good friends.

If any good thing comes out of that conversation, great. If not, great. You can then start phasing yourself out if you still don't feel like she's giving much thought/effort to your friendship as she used to/you deserve/you give her.

When Lola approached her about how she was feeling phased out when Angela had a boyfriend this is what Lola did. She had a frank conversation about it. It didn't end well. So I'm a bit dubious about how this would go down with Angela.

To try and avoid a whole other debate over her comments and attitude toward me ill keep this brief but what she does and says sometimes would suggest she feels 'better' than me in life and work. This was one of the things pointed out to me by my friend.

What I do know is that I have had enough of being treated badly. My good friend suggested just saying charity donation for gifts hence forth. I had considered this before. In reality we dont NEED anything at this stage of our lives. I just thought that as older singletons it was nice to have a special gift especially when we don't get that from a partner or family as such. ( Reading some of the threads on mumsnet over the last day or so seems to suggest it isn't a given anyway, married with children or not!)

So things will change for me with Angela most definitely.As someone said previously friends should lift you up, not knock you down and that's how i feel when I leave her company now, analysing what I've said that could have 'annoyed' her to speak and treat me this way.

Thanks for taking the time to respond. It is still a consideration.

I'm sorry I may have misread; I thought you wanted to hold onto the friendship and see if you can salvage it. Hence, my suggestion to have the talk. But I agree with you and pp about friends holding you up and if you often question yourself with this friend, then I doubt she's still a friend.

Also if a similar line of conversation hasn't gone well with her, I don't blame you for being cautious and I too wouldn’t want to have the conversation.

In your shoes, I'd simply call it a day with the friendship but of course, what you feel is best is what you should do. I completely understand what you're feeling.

I suppose I have already tried to salvage the friendship with trying to deal with the comments, texts, gift situation for some time.

This thread has been quite therapeutic for helping me see that I don't have to be treated like this any longer. It may seem obvious to others but sometimes when youre in the thick of it you need something to make you take a step back and this thread has helped me do that. Thanks again.

This happened to me, a friend who'd always given me nice Xmas presents, was clearly re gifting.
First time as she unwrapped her Laura Mercier honey bath, I was unwrapping a used metallic purple leather credit card holder, where it was obviously used as the metallic had worn off in parts.

The following year, as she delightedly unwrapped her White Company Seychelles candle, I was handed a cheap gawdy cocktail ring, which was huge and heavy, and as I have tiny hands, literally fell straight off my finger. She is quite large, so it was obvious it was either bought for her or she bought it for herself and didn't want it. She wasn't short of money either, so not sure why she did this, so the following year I told her I wasn't buying presents and donating to charity instead.

That is nasty. Really snide and nasty.

That's not what she was upset about. Can you not read? Or understand?

I once lost my shit over a tin of spaghetti Bolognese from netto.

But I didn't give a shit about the tin. I was furious that yet again, this person had gone in my stuff and helped themselves and not given a shit. I was furious about the entitlement, the lack of consideration, ignoring all the times I had told her not to take my stuff but to ask me.
She bought me a replacement tin and couldn't understand why I was still mad and didn't give a shit about the fact she went and bought me one after I hit the roof.

She couldn't see past the actual tin much like you can't see past the cash.