To not fully understand the outrage of the gender recognition reform?

[iamop]

Leaving my views at the door on this subject....I am just hoping to gain some clarification on one main point for my own information.

Opponents of the gender reform bill claim that this will effect single sex spaces. I was appalled hearing this but I've done some reading. And it would seem (unless I'm getting this wrong) that due to the equality act 2010, a man claiming to be a female or vice versa can already use single sex spaces due to gender identity being a protected characteristic under this act. And as the equality act is a UK wide legislation implemented under labour, this has nothing to do with the Scottish gov. So am I correct in saying, that actually the gender reform bill won't actually affect single sex spaces any more so than the equality act already does?

I completely disagree with rapists etc being able to change genders and therefore force their victims and the courts to call them by a different pronoun. I think the age of 16 to be able to do this is bonkers, and I think the SNP have lost my vote moving forward.

I was just looking for some clarification to my main point above to be explained by people smarter than myself

Thanks

You're wrong have another read.

The Scottish bill changes the requirements for what it means to change gender identity to make it much much easier for someone to claim they are of a different gender.

From very recent court case brought by For Women Scotland

Lady Haldane wrote: "I conclude that in this context, which is the meaning of sex for the purposes of the 2010 Act, 'sex' is not limited to biological or birth sex, but includes those in possession of a GRC obtained in accordance with the 2004 Act stating their acquired gender, and thus their sex."

The protected characteristic under the EA 2010 is Gender reassignment, not gender identity

The latter means a man is a woman just because he says he is. No intent to transition required. The former doesn’t.

Thats the difference. In a nutshell.

Gender identity isn’t a protected characteristic, gender reassignment is. The Scottish government has just made it extremely easy for people to legally change their gender, quickly and with no checks. It’s the difference between giving a tradesman the key to your house and handing out copies of your key and home address to random people on the high street.

When the equality act says gender identity is a protected characteristic, it just means you can't discriminate against someone for their gender identity, it doesn't mean you have to treat them as whatever sex they have decided they are.

Just like you couldn't discriminate against someone for being Christian, but you're not obliged to agree with them that Jesus is the Messiah etc.

Examples of potential single sex provision are laid out in the guidance accompanying the act.

*gender reassignment, whoops

That makes a lot of sense, thank you. Okay so now my question is - if this is passed, and a male decides to get a GRC to be a female. Then he can use female changing rooms/toilets etc no questions asked? Does the bill explicitly state that as I couldn't see that anywhere.

16 year olds who are still at school can now get a GRC. This means that my daughter will be forced to accept males changing beside her for PE.

The haldane ruling states that people with a GRC must be treated as their acquired sex in all situations.

It's a direct affront on my daughter's right to privacy, dignity and safety.

Self ID means that any Tom, Dick or Harry (literally) can be a ‘woman’ thus rendering single-sex spaces a thing of the past and we could all be incarcerated, on a hospital ward, changing room, rape centre or in a toilet with a hairy-arsed bloke who says he’s a woman. More to the point, schoolgirls and our young daughters, nieces and granddaughters - who have no life experience and are completely vulnerable and disarmed could also be in that situation.

Newsflash. Not all hairy-arsed blokes who say they’re women are benign.

It’s a fucking disgraceful betrayal of women and girls. Shame on those females who have been complicit in this.

Firstly, do you realise that a trans woman does not have to have had surgery or take hormones? The vast majority of trans women have a penis.

To try to answer your question. As I understand it gender identity isn't protected. Sex is (male/female not gender), being trans is (so can't refuse someone a job because they're trans) and belief is (gender ideology - that you can change your gender- is a belief, as is gender criticalness - belief that one can not change gender).

However a grc can effectively overwrite your birth certificate. So a trans woman (male at birth) can go into women only spaces such as women's prisons and crisis centres and take positions reserved for women such as residential care for young girls or intimate care for infirm people who request it.

This is very much open to abuse. People claiming to be rans women have raped women in prison for example.

And now if you live in Scotland the creepy bloke on the bus can be a woman in 3 months because he says he is.

I'm sure it's a tiny proportion but why should women be put at risk when sex is a protected characteristic? Why can't trans people campaign for their own rights rather than impinge on women's rights?

16 year olds are trusted to change sex and vote but can't buy a packet of fags.

Ludicrous and it affects other people's rights. They have the right to share a single sex space - why actually bother with single sex?

fairplayforwomen.com/campaigns/prisons/

TW in prison and other reasons a TW being treated as a woman is bad for women's rights.

I'm sure I read something earlier in relation to the reform bill that said a lot of offenders are deciding to trans so they purposefully get sent to a womens prison. That in itself shows some of the real truths as to why this 'trend' is picking up speed. Nickla has hopefully shot herself in the foot with this.

Under the new Scottish legislation anyone who is 16 or over can decide to change their gender legally by applying for a GRC, which has the effect of changing their sex, legally, for most purposes. They do not have to have gender dysphoria or transition. They do have to pledge that they will live forever as the opposite gender. There is no explanation of what it means to live as the opposite gender. The example given is to change your name on households bills. In reality there is no particular way of living as a man or a women.

According to a recent Scottish case a man with a GRC should be regarded as a woman for the purposes of the Equality Act. If that judge is correct (and it is widely thought that she isn't ) it will mean that a man with a GRC (who under the Scottish legislation can be a man who has not transitioned and who does not have dysphoria) cannot be excluded from women's single sex spaces and services.He also must not be discriminated against for having the protected characteristic of gender reassignment when compared with women, so if a women is entitled to it then a man with a GRC must also be entitled to it. It is not possible to ask a man if he has a GRC and therefore the only way to ascertain whether a man who says he is a woman has one is to ask to see their birth certificate (because a GRC changes an individual's birth certificate). Arguably it would be discriminatory under the Equality Act only to ask men who say they are women for a copy of their birth certificate because you would be singling them out on the basis of a protected characteristic and not treating them the same as "other" women. To avoid this you would have to ask all women and men who say they are women for a copy of their birth certificate. It is rarely likely to be possible or appropriate to do this. As a result if a man says he is a woman it will be extremely difficult to turn him away.

So is the argument basically - that only trans people with GRC's are able to use single sex spaces and the Scottish Government are making GRC's too easily attainable now if this bill is passed?

So the word woman now means adult human female and any bloke who says he is one. After 3 months he gets to change his birth certificate.

The word woman is meaningless.

How's that for a bit of erasure.

Since you are not allowed to ask to see a grc any male can say they are female and demand to use the single sex female space

This could easily be fixed by making clear that sex and gender are distinct and currently there is only a legal reason to discriminate on sex not gender so even with a grc you would not be allowed into single sex spaces

Further problem I think is the reinforcement of stereotypes in children.

And the biggest problem for children is You change your gender but nothing changes so you get driven to ever more drastic action to help people see your gender which in the female case means actions that can sterilise them and shoe then life

I support self ID in general, but they lost me when they voted down 2 sensible amendments, to prevent convicted sex offenders and those accused of sex offences being able to use (ie abuse) the process. I still cannot understand why they voted down such reasonable safeguards for women and girls. Fortunately my MSP voted for the amendment (Jim Fairlie, well done) so I have emailed him to thank him. But for that reason I am angry they passed the bill as its stands without that amendment. I am also unsure about extending it to 16 and 17 year olds.

The other way to look at this is

Why is it o my women who are kicking up a big fuss?

Why is the focus on women's rights not men's rights ?

That indicates a sex related problem

YABVU

On the issue of a sex offender changing his name to a woman's name.... could he not just change his name anyway (to another man's name)? He wouldn't need to get a GRC necessarily to change name?

Apart from that, I think the whole thing is ridiculous. I very much doubt it will go through as NS intends.

Why? Do you think women should be applauding the removal of all safeguarding?

@iamop not just trans people, the bill explicitly makes it possible for ALL people to do this. Not all trans women are sex offenders, but it's an absolute fact that the vast vast majority of sex offenders are men. Now they can go anywhere you can, including women's refuges, changing rooms etc etc....

It obliterates sex being a protected characteristic, and along with the trans loophole in the DBS or equivalent, means sex offenders can apply for jobs anywhere a DBS is needed and not declare they are sex offenders to anyone.

So any man can say they are a woman and are thus protected as such across the board. And as it is illegal to request evidence of a GRC, it means self ID is already here.