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AIBU?

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Original poster

Ambulance strike is disgraceful?

1000 replies

somethingdifferenttoday · 21/12/2022 08:20

I just read this on bbc news, "Unions say life-threatening callouts will continue to be responded to over the next 24 hours but some urgent calls, for example for late-stage labour or a fall in the home, might not be answered."

Is it just me who thinks this is disgraceful?

Late stage labour at home or an elderly person laying with a broken hip ARE emergencies! I'm not sure how people in a caring profession can strike knowing these calls will go unanswered.

The unions talk about the backlog, paramedics stuck outside hospitals in ambulances unable to unload and go back out on the road but then admit they are striking for more pay rather than as a protest about that. The average salary of ambulance staff of £47,000 and a 4% pay rise isn't enough they claim but if they are given a pay rise, they will stop striking.

I think they do deserve more money (we all do with inflation) but I can't get past them supposedly being in a caring profession but taking steps that WILL cause extra deaths regardless.

I work in the private sector and have had zero pay rise. If I went on strike nobody would die and I'd be fired. This approach is abusing the critical position of their roles. I hope they are not given a pay rise as it will just demonstrate that blackmail works to other public sector workers and we will have even more strikes.

YABU = I support them striking
YANBU = I agree, it's disgraceful behaviour from a caring profession

OP posts:
Couldyounot · 21/12/2022 09:58

YABU. Just because you've not had a payrise in however long doesn't mean these people don't deserve one. Personally I do not want people in a job which carries this much responsibility to be worrying about money.

mswales · 21/12/2022 09:58

Urgent calls are already going unanswered - that's one of the reasons they are striking. YABU

Sousa · 21/12/2022 09:59

@Venetiaparties i would love to know what you do for a living and how much you earn?
You must have no problem talking about that if you have such a strong opinion (and may i say quite obsessed) about other people jobs and lives.

awaynboilyurheid · 21/12/2022 09:59

No need to look up any medical emergencies , ex nurse here

helford · 21/12/2022 09:59

@Venetiaparties No you are mistaken, both unions have said just putting pay on the table, not even an improved offer, will halt the strikes.

Do you even know what negotiation actually is?

this is down to the Tories to resolve and they have refused to even talk about pay.

Inkpotlover · 21/12/2022 09:59

Venetiaparties · 21/12/2022 09:50

Yes that in a nutshell.

No one cares about human life anymore. Not even those employed to save lives.

We are in a new reality if nurses are posting on here - 'short term pain' when talking about the deaths of people that could have otherwise been saved today.

That particularly post is staying with me. The sheer cold indifference.

You and your loved ones, you are just 'short term pain' a tool to wangle more money - and nothing more - your life is meaningless. That is what we have been reduced to. It is terrible reading the posts of total and absolute indifference.

This is what militancy looks like.

Show quote history

Okay, I'll bite. Let's consider for a moment you're right, that no one cares about human lives and people are going to die from heart attacks today because of the strike.

But why are so many people having heart attacks? Current stats show it's still the leading cause of death among men of all ages and one of the leading ones among women. Well, we all know the cause of them is largely lifestyle-related. Smoking, drinking, being obese – things can lead to high blood pressure and narrowed, blocked arteries.

While you're ranting about the lack of care for human lives, why aren't you blaming the public not taking responsibility for their own health and putting pressure on the paramedics and nurses for treatment that could be avoided?

Startingagain8 · 21/12/2022 09:59

OopsAnotherOne · 21/12/2022 09:53

The way I see it OP is that, due to poor working conditions, continuous real-term annual wage cut, a lack of funding etc means that the ambulance service is already on its knees. It already cannot provide the service we expect from it. There are already people lying on the floor for hours with broken hips/legs/arms/spines waiting for an ambulance. People are already dying due to heart attacks and strokes not being attended to in time.

Many of the available paramedic staff and ambulances are waiting for hours (sometimes an entire shift) in an A&E queue with their patient that they can't leave until they can do a handover, but due to the A&E crisis this can sometimes take so long that crews can only attend 1 or 2 calls their entire shift.

Something has to chance, NHS staff are already leaving in droves and not being replaced due to the fact that it's no secret that the working conditions are poor, the pay is stagnant and staff get endless verbal and physical abuse from patients and members of the public alike.

Less and less people want to work in such a demanding role for the same wage they could be earning in a much easier, slow-paced, 9-5 role elsewhere. We need people to do these difficult, demanding jobs with irregular hours, unpredictability and high stress. In order to encourage people into the workforce to allow patients the correct care and safe levels of staffing without delays, the job needs to be attractive.

No one, no matter how much people try to tell us otherwise, goes to work just for fun. We are all there because we are being paid. Some of us love our jobs and enjoy turning up every morning, but I would still prefer to be at home with my family, or on a nice country walk or at the seaside. But I'm not, because I (like everyone else) needs money to live, to survive, to buy food, to pay bills, to afford a roof over my head, to clothe myself, to pay for utilities and to pay tax.

Paramedics and other NHS staff cannot be put on a pedestal as martyrs who do their job as a vocation because they want to save people. They may very well do, they may love their jobs and may have joined the profession for no other reason than to help people, but the very act of having a job is done by people because people need an income. No matter how much someone loves their job and is committed to it, if the bills keep rising, the cost of living keeps increasing and their wages keep ticking up at a pathetically small pay rise which is a real-term pay cut, eventually they will need to look for a different job to keep themselves afloat.

They already are. Thousands of them have already left, thousands more are considering it / in the process of looking for another job. These paramedics and nurses are unable to provide the level of care and satisfaction to patients that they desired to when they joined the role through NO fault of their own. It's not like they don't want to do the job, they want to be able to do the job safely, efficiently and they want to be paid fairly for it. Their responsibilities in recent years have not decreased, they have increased, as has their workload and expected hours, however their pay has been worth less and less each year.

I'm a "pen pusher" working a 9-5 at a desk and would consider my role easier than paramedics, nurses, GPs or anyone else in a medical setting and I wouldn't accept more responsibility, longer hours, unsafe working conditions and more just to see the value of my wage decreasing. I don't know why people expect those in the NHS just to accept these increasingly poor conditions, because they're in a "vocation". Love for the job, clapping on a Thursday night and appreciation doesn't pay the bills.

All of this!!

Martyrs is exactly the word I was thinking of. For far too long people have been happy for them to be underpaid martyrs while giving them a measly clap rather than demanding change from the government. Disgusting.

We have all let it get to this critical stage where they’re pushed into striking. Full solidarity with the strikers.

IClaudine · 21/12/2022 10:00

Anotherproblem · 21/12/2022 09:56

Idratherbepaddleboarding
Yes right and cause even more problems for the uk than what's happening already.
All sectors deliver a essential service which would impact massively on the uk if everybody did the same none of us are immune to the cost of living. I work in a area where I do 14 hour shifts and I get punched and kicked should I go on strike because of low wages and lack of staff.

Well yes. If you want improved pay and conditions joun a union and take collective action. Or do you think all workers should put up and shut up? Tug the forelock and be grateful for the crusts thrown at you by the masters?

user18596463 · 21/12/2022 10:00

mswales · 21/12/2022 09:58

Urgent calls are already going unanswered - that's one of the reasons they are striking. YABU

And of course the Money

Havanananana · 21/12/2022 10:00

Venetiaparties · 21/12/2022 09:44

Yes it was ten pages back

We need an all party agreement to reform the NHS and social care.
This is too big and too important for any one party.

We need urgent and total reformation of the NHS and an overhaul - the biggest this country has ever seen.

Show quote history

There cannot be an all-party agreement when only two parties will be involved and both have totally different approaches to healthcare and social care.

One party believes blindly in the Free Market and that this will resolve every and any problem - but the result will be a situation as in the USA where healthcare is very good for those that can afford it and very bad for those who cannot. If you need an ambulance, it will come - but at a cost of thousands of dollars.

The other party believes that healthcare and social care are community obligations that everyone should contribute to because everyone benefits, and that a certain guaranteed level of care is the sign of an advanced, civilised society. The NHS is touted as a good example of this, but has been starved of funds for the last 12 years or more - UK spending per capita on healthcare is far lower than in many other European countries.

The current government claims that the country cannot afford to spend the money required on the health service - not just on wages but also on facilities, buildings, equipment etc.

That the 5th/6th/7th wealthiest country on the planet cannot afford sufficient ambulances, nurses, doctors, hospital beds etc. is either a sign of a deliberate attempt to destroy the NHS or an indication of gross mis-management and incompetence on the part of the politicians in charge. Either way, it is a disgrace.

The longest-serving Health Secretary in the UK is Jeremy Hunt - the man who is now Chancellor and who is continuing to starve the NHS of funds, just as he did during his 6 years as Health Secretary.

Anotherproblem · 21/12/2022 10:01

MrsMurphyIWish
Then they should be sensible about this thier demands are too high pure greed.

Original poster
somethingdifferenttoday · 21/12/2022 10:01

I do wonder if everyone disagreeing with me (which is absolutely your right) realises that if the government were to agree the pay demand, ambulance staff will go right back to work.

Hospital beds will still be blocked, elderly social care will still be a disgrace, ambulances will still be queuing outside hospitals for hours.

The only change will be ambulance staff being paid more so a few more people might want to be ambulance staff. Oh hang on, you are all arguing that they are striking because of the conditions and backlogs too. So will they carry on striking over all the other issues, losing money each day they strike? No, didn't think so.

They are allowing people to die to get more money. Unions are holding the general public to ransom so they pressure the government to give them a pay rise. They obviously deserve more but causing deaths? I can't support that.

OP posts:
orchid220 · 21/12/2022 10:01

Venetiaparties · 21/12/2022 09:54

Yup!

If the gov agree to a bankrupting 19% this will all be over tomorrow.

It is not about patient welfare, it is not about conditions. This is about

MONEY MONEY MONEY

Show quote history

They don't have to agree to 19%. They just have to negotiate and compromise by offering more than they are currently offering. If you think they are so well paid for the job they are doing why to you think people are leaving?

Onnabugeisha · 21/12/2022 10:01

orchid220 · 21/12/2022 09:55

I would still blame the government. They aren't even negotiating.

Show quote history

Not true. The government is willing to negotiate on everything except pay.

So the secretary of state has said today that he’s willing to negotiate, except negotiate on the one issue that the trade unions want to negotiate on, which is pay.

So if the strike really were not about pay, then why is the union now refusing to negotiate? Hmmm? They could be discussing working conditions and patient safety…the supposed advertised reasons for the strike….

But the Union is refusing to negotiate. Because it has to include pay. So the strikes are about pay. More money or people die.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/dec/18/uk-government-will-stay-resolute-on-nurses-pay-says-oliver-dowden-strikes

neverbeenskiing · 21/12/2022 10:02

I would actually want these strikers sacked as that kind of person who would hold human lives hostage like that has no business in a healthcare profession.

Jesus H Christ on a bike, are people really this hard of thinking?? There is a massive recruitment and retention crisis leading to chronically low staffing levels compromising patent care and your brilliant, compassionate solution is to (drumroll...) sack existing HCP's for exercising their legal right to strike! Inspired.

Then they can see what real struggle is like.

Ha! Yeah those snowflakes don't know they're born, right? Go and volunteer your services on the wards then and let's see how long you last.

Livelovebehappy · 21/12/2022 10:02

YANBU. It’s like going into a restaurant, paying £30 for a steak, then complaining afterwards. Don’t like the pay and conditions when you apply for a job? Then choose another career.

noblegiraffe · 21/12/2022 10:02

To those who think this is my 2nd thread on this, it's really not. This is my first. I've been here years.

Then it is extraordinary how similar your OP is to the one from last night also calling the strikes disgraceful. That OP also claimed to not have had a pay rise. That OP also said that they would be fired if they went on strike. That OP also wittered on about the caring profession not caring.

That OP got called out as a liar because they claimed to be a social worker, and we know that social workers have had pay rises this year. That OP then deregged and the thread was deleted.

So if you are not that OP, why are you repeating all the same talking points as them? Where are you getting them from?

ABBAsnumberonefan · 21/12/2022 10:02

RamsayEaster · 21/12/2022 09:56

@SnowlayRoundabout

Clearly the strikes aren’t working though

As I said let’s hope no one supporting the strike has a family / friend who doesn’t get the help they need from a paramedic today

Im sure there will be always one thread tomorrow where someone was affected by what’s happening today 😞

They’re not working because people like those on this thread are eating up the narrative that the government are feeding them. If they opened their eyes and turned the anger towards gov it would be effective.

Critical thinking time everyone!

Alexandra2001 · 21/12/2022 10:02

The Cons want the strikes.. it their longer term aim.

Forces those that can ... to go PHI... everyone else gets an AE only service.... which obviously will mean a smaller state and far cheaper.

Numerous Tories from Thatcher onward have talked about wanting this for decades.

user18596463 · 21/12/2022 10:03

If they got the money they wanted the other stuff would be conveniently forgotten

ABBAsnumberonefan · 21/12/2022 10:03

noblegiraffe · 21/12/2022 10:02

To those who think this is my 2nd thread on this, it's really not. This is my first. I've been here years.

Then it is extraordinary how similar your OP is to the one from last night also calling the strikes disgraceful. That OP also claimed to not have had a pay rise. That OP also said that they would be fired if they went on strike. That OP also wittered on about the caring profession not caring.

That OP got called out as a liar because they claimed to be a social worker, and we know that social workers have had pay rises this year. That OP then deregged and the thread was deleted.

So if you are not that OP, why are you repeating all the same talking points as them? Where are you getting them from?

This 100% - handy that user deactivated too isn’t it, OP?

MissTrip82 · 21/12/2022 10:03

Maybe you should jump ship OP.
You’re clearly a more moral and in every way better person than paramedics. It’s weird such a good person has been working in private sector doing work that doesn’t really matter. Time to step up. Show them what an ethical person looks like.

Cantreachthefatscrubs · 21/12/2022 10:03

YABU

HerReputationMadeItDifficultToProceed · 21/12/2022 10:03

Blame Sunak and his abdication of leadership in not even bothering to speak to the unions.

MrsMurphyIWish · 21/12/2022 10:03

somethingdifferenttoday · 21/12/2022 10:01

I do wonder if everyone disagreeing with me (which is absolutely your right) realises that if the government were to agree the pay demand, ambulance staff will go right back to work.

Hospital beds will still be blocked, elderly social care will still be a disgrace, ambulances will still be queuing outside hospitals for hours.

The only change will be ambulance staff being paid more so a few more people might want to be ambulance staff. Oh hang on, you are all arguing that they are striking because of the conditions and backlogs too. So will they carry on striking over all the other issues, losing money each day they strike? No, didn't think so.

They are allowing people to die to get more money. Unions are holding the general public to ransom so they pressure the government to give them a pay rise. They obviously deserve more but causing deaths? I can't support that.

If more people join the profession then surely that will have a ripple effect and reduce over all strain in services? Obviously not immediately but it’s going to take a while to improve the 12 years of austerity the Tories punished us with.

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