Ambulance strike is disgraceful?

[somethingdifferenttoday]

I just read this on bbc news, "Unions say life-threatening callouts will continue to be responded to over the next 24 hours but some urgent calls, for example for late-stage labour or a fall in the home, might not be answered."

Is it just me who thinks this is disgraceful?

Late stage labour at home or an elderly person laying with a broken hip ARE emergencies! I'm not sure how people in a caring profession can strike knowing these calls will go unanswered.

The unions talk about the backlog, paramedics stuck outside hospitals in ambulances unable to unload and go back out on the road but then admit they are striking for more pay rather than as a protest about that. The average salary of ambulance staff of £47,000 and a 4% pay rise isn't enough they claim but if they are given a pay rise, they will stop striking.

I think they do deserve more money (we all do with inflation) but I can't get past them supposedly being in a caring profession but taking steps that WILL cause extra deaths regardless.

I work in the private sector and have had zero pay rise. If I went on strike nobody would die and I'd be fired. This approach is abusing the critical position of their roles. I hope they are not given a pay rise as it will just demonstrate that blackmail works to other public sector workers and we will have even more strikes.

YABU = I support them striking
YANBU = I agree, it's disgraceful behaviour from a caring profession

You seem to be suggesting that Labour are my party, which is odd. I don't have a party.

I'm critical of people saying that bankers are somehow deserving of massive bonuses and high pay because their tax is needed, when the banking bailout gave the Tories the excuse they needed to brutally underfund the public sector for the last 12 years which has resulted in this awful situation we are in.

Anyone wanting gratitude for bankers can get to fuck.

That is absolutely a massive problem. People will call an ambulance for anything and don't stop to consider (or don't care) that their sore shoulder is stopping an ambulance going to someone in cardiac arrest or a child who has stopped breathing.

We are a very selfish people.

Whether you like it or not @noblegiraffe tax take from the London financial services sector is currently keeping the country afloat. The over-dependence on that can of course be critiqued but those pesky bankers are pretty mobile and there is traction towards other financial sectors in Europe/Middle East , many foreign governments are actually trying to attract them because it is an easy tax take.
Let’s not bankrupt ourselves further in the name of morality if it ends up harming the vulnerable person even more.
The weak pound and our debt is a huge issue.

What about those who needed first aid last week or and urgent trip to the hospital next month? Not bothered about them?

You probably didn’t notice but he wasn’t running. I know Labour like to ignore their last election leader - but that was the choice and he failed dismally.

Have a go at your party if it still rankles.

So.. what do you suggest they do? Because this is not the FIRST course of action for them, this is the last resort. Where else do you go?

FYI... for those saying 'well it is easy for you to say'... no, no it isn't, it is fucking terrifying at the minute, as someone who is at super high risk of a fatal cardiac event, with multiple dx, many of which are debilitating and cause extreme pain, the current NHS situation is horrific.

The chances of me dying whilst waiting for an ambulance have gone from 'possible' to 'near certain' for me.

Right now as I type this, I can't get in our car, my hip has subluxed again and is stuck, trapping something (and this is ongoing for the last 48 hours) and I can't stand, can't twist to transfer, and sitting is really uncomfortable, and whilst OH can help me stand and twist and just ignore the screams, we can't do that to get in the car. So the ONLY way I am getting to hospital if I must go, is in an ambulance.

Last time my hip did this it was three weeks before it resolved itself and I could safely get in our car again.

I still support the strikes, the awful wait times are not the fault of the ambulance service nor the fault of nurses.

Yep well put. People are too emotive about ‘bankers’. Someone needs to pay the tax burden. It should be spread around but taking it down is pointless.

Whether you like it or not @noblegiraffe tax take from the London financial services sector is currently keeping the country afloat. The over-dependence on that can of course be critiqued but those pesky bankers are pretty mobile

Turns out those pesky ambulance workers and nurses are pretty mobile too. So we should be paying them more money to stay, right?

Or do you think a healthy workforce who can access prompt healthcare isn't vital to the economy?

An improved health service will stimulate growth and increase tax receipts. We have a massive labour shortage, and we're just about the only developed nation where employment levels have yet to get back to pre-pandemic levels, and that is stunting growth. The government have commissioned a report into this, the findings of which are due next year, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to link the poor state of our public services to our poor growth. We need a functioning health service to ensure that when workers are sick, they're patched up and back to work pronto. Instead we have people waiting for months, years sometimes, on waiting lists, not getting better, not working. If you defund the public sector, the private sector is not as productive, but the Tories don't seem to have woken up to that yet.

I don't support Labour either and I'm not having a go, just stating that if you vote for underfunded public services you shouldn't complain about underfunded public services.

As I said reap what you sow. I just find it hilarious when the reapers moan about what they've sown.

In Switzerland for example, people don’t tend to call ambulances willy nilly because it costs CHF600 to do so and of that, even with good health insurance you have a deductible of let’s say 10-15% (as an example). If it is cheaper to get a taxi or have a neighbour or family drive you, that is what people do.
Ambulances should only be called for those who cannot be moved safely and need immediate paramedic attention. Shouldn’t be called for eg non medically urgent elderly issues - the care home down my road is definitely a little bit guilty of this. However, I do understand why - they don’t have the staff to go sit with someone in A&E for 6 hours etc. Nor do they want the liability if they don’t call an ambulance. That can be a real problem.

I do see both sides to this in a way, but that could be because I’m trained as a mental health nurse and try to withhold judgement when I don’t have the full facts.

In no way am I posting this for sympathy or “poor me,” but I really do think some people have no idea what nurses/ambulance staff go through on a shift daily..

Starting from the beginning, when I started training all financial support for nurses was scrapped (no worries, it’s the career I wanted anyway as I wanted to care for people, plus, most other degrees you have to pay for etc so can’t moan!) during my degree I worked part time in ‘high street shops’ in order to fund myself as much as possible, as well as working on placement for free (approx 2500 hours in 3 years - still, fine by me, I’m getting qualified in what I want to do!).

Qualified 6 months early to ‘opt in’ to working on the front line during COVID (deers in headlights a bit) - but there you go - that’s what you did the degree for, plus you learn very quickly when you need to.

I regard myself as having thick skin, but I must admit I wasn’t prepared for the physical, mental, sexual abuse that comes with being a qualified member of staff. I’ve been punched, pinched, spat at, held hostage, called every name under the sun, death threats, hair pulled, slapped, scratched, sexually assaulted etc. Unfortunately, this became something of the norm and something to expect on most shifts - and I get why people would say “so why do you stay and do it” but I was doing what I loved and was caring for people. It wasn’t all bad, there were moments that made it so so sooo worth it, yet I would not encourage my future children into this profession that I am so proud to be a part of. I have sat with multiple people as they take their last breaths during covid, trying to make their death as person centred as I can, singing to them, putting hymns on, holding their hands and reassuring them and I used to think, all the things this individual has seen and done with their lives, all the memories they have and all the life they have lived.. and I am privileged enough to be here with them at their last moments.. as someone who really truly cares.

I understand at the moment that the NHS is in dire need of fixing or a different pathway needs to be put in place as it cannot go on like this.

As for the ambulance strike, when I worked in a care home over a year ago, a resident fell and broke their hip and we waited for 8 hours for an ambulance, unfortunately this is not a new issue, however I see how it is easier said than done when it is someone you love needing the service to be angry about the strike.

anyway, that’s enough from me, sorry for the long post!

This pretty much sums it up
He was a marine and now works as an EMT

Believe me I experience a lot more trauma in this job.
Doing a job not for the money is all well and good but it doesn’t pay your mortgage, and it doesn’t put food on your kid’s table.
I’m a single dad but I’m fortunate, I have a strong support network and family around me. But I know people a lot worse off who are having to use food banks.
One day you’re saving someone’s life or holding someone’s hands because their son has committed suicide upstairs. The next day you’re going into a food bank because you can’t feed yourself. It’s beyond a joke now and something needs to change.
I’ve made the difficult decision to come into work to strike in civilian clothes. I won’t be responding to critical calls, like many of my colleagues who are doing the same.
All the calls we respond to on a day-to-day basis are critical anyway, so personally I feel that if you come in and do the derogations nothing really changes.
Every shift feels like a strike because most of the time we’re not responding to calls.
We didn’t join to do that and it’s so demoralising for us, and most importantly, regardless of what we’re feeling, there’s a patient on the back of the ambulance who potentially has waited up to 30 hours or more for us to come.
Then they will have to wait an insane amount of hours outside hospital, only to be let in and have to wait x amount of hours to see a doctor or a nurse because they’re also chronically understaffed and stressed.
The back of an ambulance is no place to toilet someone, to wash someone, to comfort someone in distress.
I feel like unless I take action this pattern will continue

@Pelo22 you have my full support and thanks, and I truly believe most of the public support you. Like I said upthread, I'm only here and typing this because I once got CPR'd by a paramedic. Obviously I didn't know a thing about it until a couple of days later but I often wonder who that person was. I'd like to thank them, but I'll thank you their behalf.

It's no great shock the usual suspects are screaming about the tories again waving tiny fists around red faced incandescent with rage. The reality is increasing wages across the board would lead to an inflation death spiral which happened in the 70s further decreasing quality of life for all of us, not just the NHS workers.

Inflation is the main issue that causes issues with wages, and the reason for this is principally covid lockdowns which ( cue the drumroll) were brought in to protect the useless NHS... the irony that this same "service" is now complaining about economic problems which it helped to instigate is hilarious. I can't remember a single year in the last 20 where it wasn't nearly "bursting at the seems" and given the amount of tax payers money disappearing into it like the metaphorical black hole perhaps time it was scrapped. I don't see these same issues in other countries..a healthcare worker is not a typical profession as the basic goal is to save lives not abandoning ship. As others have said, all very well to type YABU, but I suspect the wind would change quickly if it was a relative who died as a consequence of these disgusting strikes which will cost lives make no mistake about it. That said, the same people raging about the state of the economy were labelling anyone not supporting lockdowns as a " granny killer" which anyone with an IQ over 70 could see would lead to this mess.

We really do need an election. If people back the government over this then we'll have a definitive answer as to who people blame for this.

My husband is self employed, works in construction. Works long hours in all weather, when it was 40°+ in the Summer he was outside working in it when people in offices were complaining. When it was -10° last week again he worked through it. As he's self employed he has no paid holidays and no sick pay. He has no choice but to work in it, all for about £35,000 a year. He deserves a raise too! Has he had one? No! Will he get one? No! Is his job safe if we hit another recession? No! Does he ever complain? No!
This is 2022. We ALL deserve more money to cope with the crippling world we are living in.
The shop keepers that got abused during covid and have to put up with the general public that didn't have furlough like many. They deserve more money.
The teachers that have had the love of the job sucked out of them. They deserve more money.
The factory workers that work through the night for minimum wage deserve more money.
The army that step up to everything and keep us safe and live away from their children definitely deserve more money.
If you ask anyone right now I'm sure they can justify they need and deserve to be better paid.
I don't see how people dying is the answer?
I appreciate they are striking to highlight the conditions but people already know this. But you do the same as my husband, you dig deeper. Keep going on. Head down and get on with it or you move to a profession where you think the pay and conditions are better. Good luck finding one.
One last thing, my husband couldn't afford to strike even if he wanted to. What does that tell you?!

I don't think anyone has the right to say they shouldn't have a pay rise or they should be paid less money unless those people have done the job themselves.

I think You've missed my point. If someone is waiting hours and hours in the back of an ambulance (pre-strike and potentially on "good" day) then that ambulance cannot go back out to help someone else!
A small number of people may suffer or have a delayed wait for an ambulance due to the strike today - but - this also happens when the ambulance staff are NOT striking. People need to wake up and see the state the NHS is in.

Yabu
So say they DIDNT strike today. There would STILL be paramedics doing entire shifts in hospital car park.
Do you suggest this continues?

MrsTtobe
I don't disagree but your husband could have decided to join a public service or to be employed in an industry that is unionised. If so then he could strike for better pay and conditions. The fact that some people are self employed and can't strike does not in any way explain why those who can should not.

I'm no longer in the job after a decade I was a call handler and dispatch, but that was a quote from a guy they interviewed today

I stand with my old colleagues

''One day you’re saving someone’s life or holding someone’s hands because their son has committed suicide upstairs. The next day you’re going into a food bank because you can’t feed yourself.'

But why can't you manage on a band 5 or band 6 salary. Many people earn much less! let's leave the food banks for those who need them.

Please get back to work, this thread does not represent many I come across irl. Few support ambulance staff striking.