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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Ambulance strike is disgraceful?

1000 replies

somethingdifferenttoday · 21/12/2022 08:20

I just read this on bbc news, "Unions say life-threatening callouts will continue to be responded to over the next 24 hours but some urgent calls, for example for late-stage labour or a fall in the home, might not be answered."

Is it just me who thinks this is disgraceful?

Late stage labour at home or an elderly person laying with a broken hip ARE emergencies! I'm not sure how people in a caring profession can strike knowing these calls will go unanswered.

The unions talk about the backlog, paramedics stuck outside hospitals in ambulances unable to unload and go back out on the road but then admit they are striking for more pay rather than as a protest about that. The average salary of ambulance staff of £47,000 and a 4% pay rise isn't enough they claim but if they are given a pay rise, they will stop striking.

I think they do deserve more money (we all do with inflation) but I can't get past them supposedly being in a caring profession but taking steps that WILL cause extra deaths regardless.

I work in the private sector and have had zero pay rise. If I went on strike nobody would die and I'd be fired. This approach is abusing the critical position of their roles. I hope they are not given a pay rise as it will just demonstrate that blackmail works to other public sector workers and we will have even more strikes.

YABU = I support them striking
YANBU = I agree, it's disgraceful behaviour from a caring profession

OP posts:
nancydroo · 21/12/2022 09:49

YANBU

It's disgraceful.

They should leave the profession. Train ripple who want the job.

antipodeancanary · 21/12/2022 09:49

You sound really thick op. Not surprised you have not had a pay rise for ages and your employers are looking for an excuse to sack you.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 21/12/2022 09:49

@Venetiaparties if I remember rightly there was some good cross party consensus and working together in 2009/10 and then all of a sudden it was “death tax!!!!”

There were cross party discussions

Katypp · 21/12/2022 09:50

@Katapolts I'm not sure where you got your figures from? The starting salary is, around £23k rising to just under £33k on completion of training.

SnowlayRoundabout · 21/12/2022 09:50

RamsayEaster · 21/12/2022 09:48

@Katapolts

I fully support a pay increase for paramedics what I don’t support is the way they are going about it , someone who could have a stroke / be in the last stage of labour may not get an ambulance today that’s not right

So how do you suggest they get the pay increase they desperately need and deserve? Because waiting around for this government to agree is not going to achieve it, is it? Would you rather they do nothing until all the paramedics have left for jobs that enable them to pay their bills?

Venetiaparties · 21/12/2022 09:50

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Yes that in a nutshell.

No one cares about human life anymore. Not even those employed to save lives.

We are in a new reality if nurses are posting on here - 'short term pain' when talking about the deaths of people that could have otherwise been saved today.

That particularly post is staying with me. The sheer cold indifference.

You and your loved ones, you are just 'short term pain' a tool to wangle more money - and nothing more - your life is meaningless. That is what we have been reduced to. It is terrible reading the posts of total and absolute indifference.

This is what militancy looks like.

helford · 21/12/2022 09:50

sst1234 · 21/12/2022 08:27

Exactly. It’s easy to lecture others until people watch their loved ones die. And it will happen.

It is and has been happening long before the Strike.

65 year old man died 2 weeks nr me after a heart attack, Ambulance took over 2 hours, i knew him as he lived down the road from me when i was a kid.

Blame lies with Sunak and Barclay, the paramedics and nurses will call of strike action if Govt will just talk pay, Govt refuses.

Now Sunak & Barclay name calling, going to help isn't it.

Scottishskifun · 21/12/2022 09:50

YABU and the average paramedic doesnt get 47K either!
They start on 25k which after 2 years raises to the next band of 33K and they start on the scale of that.

they often work way over their shifts deal with abuse and extremely challenging circumstances.healthcare professionals don't take the decision to strike light

EndlessRain1 · 21/12/2022 09:51

I support the strikes. Ultimately they've been paid too little for too long.

That said, I do feel absolutely awful for the people that are the victims of all this. And there will be many. Hopefully those who die will be limited, but a lot of people will suffer which is terribly sad and unacceptable in one of the richest economies in the world.

RovenderKitt · 21/12/2022 09:51

YABU. Elderly people are already being left on the floor with broken hips, do you not keep up with current affairs?

NinjaWarriorCooker · 21/12/2022 09:52

MrsMurphyIWish · 21/12/2022 09:47

I will be “flouncing” with pride in the hopes that education improves for our future generation!

And I will be supporting you and all
other strikers

Onnabugeisha · 21/12/2022 09:52

This disgusting narrative of greedy nurses and ambulance drivers by certain sections of the press at the behest of their political masters (the very ones who were praising them 2 years ago) means that people like you think it’s ok to get out the dog whistle and point at people who are trying to protect the services we rely on, rather than looking at the real culprits.

Its the truth. They’re not protecting anything but their pay. You don’t “protect” the sick and injured by leaving them to die. You just don’t do that. And these strikes are going to turn the public against them. I am on the brink of it myself. I supported more pay and better conditions, I still do.

But if the death toll gets too high, I would actually want these strikers sacked as that kind of person who would hold human lives hostage like that has no business in a healthcare profession. Let them cope on universal credit. Then they can see what real struggle is like.

Venetiaparties · 21/12/2022 09:52

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

antipodeancanary · 21/12/2022 09:52

nancydroo · 21/12/2022 09:49

YANBU

It's disgraceful.

They should leave the profession. Train ripple who want the job.

No one wants the job. Some new graduates think they do, but after a few months they understand what a mistake they have made and leave asap. Recruitment and retention is appalling

Theeyeballsinthesky · 21/12/2022 09:52

People are already dying because of a chronically over stretched, mis managed & under funded service

neverbeenskiing · 21/12/2022 09:52

nancydroo · 21/12/2022 09:49

YANBU

It's disgraceful.

They should leave the profession. Train ripple who want the job.

They ARE leaving, in droves, and they are not being replaced, because not enough people want to work in appalling conditions, for shit pay in a system that prevents them from giving a decent standard of care. That's the whole point you doughnut!

helford · 21/12/2022 09:52

@Venetiaparties The indifference is from the GOvt, remember the people you are criticising, kept many of us alive during the pandemic, they have been forced into this.

XmasElf10 · 21/12/2022 09:53

YABU, I fully support nurses, ambulance workers and other public sector folks who’ve experienced real term pay cuts over the last years. My sister is a cop and has virtually no pay rise for 10 years.

Venetiaparties · 21/12/2022 09:53

NinjaWarriorCooker · 21/12/2022 09:52

And I will be supporting you and all
other strikers

Of course you will from your sofa and popping down the centre every now and then to keep the coffers topped up.

Those that hate this country are sitting back and enjoying the carnage.

Purplecatshopaholic · 21/12/2022 09:53

pompomdaisy · 21/12/2022 08:23

YABU they don't want to f* strike! They have been driven to it as have nurses by this government. Get your head out of your a*!

This

OopsAnotherOne · 21/12/2022 09:53

The way I see it OP is that, due to poor working conditions, continuous real-term annual wage cut, a lack of funding etc means that the ambulance service is already on its knees. It already cannot provide the service we expect from it. There are already people lying on the floor for hours with broken hips/legs/arms/spines waiting for an ambulance. People are already dying due to heart attacks and strokes not being attended to in time.

Many of the available paramedic staff and ambulances are waiting for hours (sometimes an entire shift) in an A&E queue with their patient that they can't leave until they can do a handover, but due to the A&E crisis this can sometimes take so long that crews can only attend 1 or 2 calls their entire shift.

Something has to chance, NHS staff are already leaving in droves and not being replaced due to the fact that it's no secret that the working conditions are poor, the pay is stagnant and staff get endless verbal and physical abuse from patients and members of the public alike.

Less and less people want to work in such a demanding role for the same wage they could be earning in a much easier, slow-paced, 9-5 role elsewhere. We need people to do these difficult, demanding jobs with irregular hours, unpredictability and high stress. In order to encourage people into the workforce to allow patients the correct care and safe levels of staffing without delays, the job needs to be attractive.

No one, no matter how much people try to tell us otherwise, goes to work just for fun. We are all there because we are being paid. Some of us love our jobs and enjoy turning up every morning, but I would still prefer to be at home with my family, or on a nice country walk or at the seaside. But I'm not, because I (like everyone else) needs money to live, to survive, to buy food, to pay bills, to afford a roof over my head, to clothe myself, to pay for utilities and to pay tax.

Paramedics and other NHS staff cannot be put on a pedestal as martyrs who do their job as a vocation because they want to save people. They may very well do, they may love their jobs and may have joined the profession for no other reason than to help people, but the very act of having a job is done by people because people need an income. No matter how much someone loves their job and is committed to it, if the bills keep rising, the cost of living keeps increasing and their wages keep ticking up at a pathetically small pay rise which is a real-term pay cut, eventually they will need to look for a different job to keep themselves afloat.

They already are. Thousands of them have already left, thousands more are considering it / in the process of looking for another job. These paramedics and nurses are unable to provide the level of care and satisfaction to patients that they desired to when they joined the role through NO fault of their own. It's not like they don't want to do the job, they want to be able to do the job safely, efficiently and they want to be paid fairly for it. Their responsibilities in recent years have not decreased, they have increased, as has their workload and expected hours, however their pay has been worth less and less each year.

I'm a "pen pusher" working a 9-5 at a desk and would consider my role easier than paramedics, nurses, GPs or anyone else in a medical setting and I wouldn't accept more responsibility, longer hours, unsafe working conditions and more just to see the value of my wage decreasing. I don't know why people expect those in the NHS just to accept these increasingly poor conditions, because they're in a "vocation". Love for the job, clapping on a Thursday night and appreciation doesn't pay the bills.

Onnabugeisha · 21/12/2022 09:53

helford · 21/12/2022 09:50

It is and has been happening long before the Strike.

65 year old man died 2 weeks nr me after a heart attack, Ambulance took over 2 hours, i knew him as he lived down the road from me when i was a kid.

Blame lies with Sunak and Barclay, the paramedics and nurses will call of strike action if Govt will just talk pay, Govt refuses.

Now Sunak & Barclay name calling, going to help isn't it.

Yep, they will call off the strike if the Government will meet their pay demand.
(no other demands.,.after all patient safety is just window dressing for the gullible)

Its really about pay.

awaynboilyurheid · 21/12/2022 09:53

Yes the government are enjoying the carnage of their own making

Venetiaparties · 21/12/2022 09:53

helford · 21/12/2022 09:52

@Venetiaparties The indifference is from the GOvt, remember the people you are criticising, kept many of us alive during the pandemic, they have been forced into this.

You lost me at refusing cat 2 call outs

And at 19%!!!!

You have idiots for representatives!

Theeyeballsinthesky · 21/12/2022 09:54

Erm what @Venetiaparties??? im merely pointing out that in the past there had been apparently constructive cross party talks which you yourself said would be a good idea

that Andrew Lansley walked away from them and the Tories then started on with the death tax campaign is a matter of public record

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