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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

I know IABU, blatantly using this for traffic. Emergency situation, no ambulance still, and need advice

765 replies

TheChinkOfaGlass · 19/12/2022 16:35

Hi everyone

My Auntie had a fall this morning and has seriously hurt her hip. Luckily she was close enough to the bed to get herself up on it.

999 said it is not an emergency and to contact 111, she was in severe agony and is 78 years old. I rang 111 who after assessing her, decided she did indeed need an ambulance.

I had originally offered to take her to the hospital but she lives on the top floor of a maisonette, and is unable to sit up (so a car journey would be no good and I would be unable to carry her to the car anyway. I did get help but she declined due to the inability to even sit up).

Her husband is disabled so isn't much use (I mean this in the nicest possible way, he is trying his best) other than keeping an eye on her.

So we could be waiting hours for an ambulance but in the meantime she is soaked through on the bed due to urinating on herself. I am going there in the next 30 minutes.

Is it safe to roll her to change the sheets to make her more comfortable? I don't like the idea of her lying in a soaking bed while she waits. I am also scared of causing more pain/damage by moving her. We do not know what's wrong, she thinks it may he her hip. I just don't know what to do. I have never experienced this kind of thing.

Her partner has managed to change her underwear but when the bed is so wet, it wouldn't really make a difference.

OP posts:
Fireflygal · 19/12/2022 19:16

Unfortunately we are in a situation where we can't rely on the ambulance service, which is so sad.

maximist · 19/12/2022 19:20

Morechocmorechoc · 19/12/2022 19:08

This is a stupid thread. She clearly needs to be going to hospital.

So are you going to magic an ambulance out of thin air for her?

FFS. People.

Daughtersandbristolian · 19/12/2022 19:21

Our auntie had hip replacement but there were complications she was in agony - ambulance didn’t come for 15 hours then she was discharged asap and then had to go through it all again so keep calling 111 she needs morphine and professionals.

Namenic · 19/12/2022 19:21

OP - has your aunt managed to get some pain relief? You could go to pharmacist to get co codamol (don’t use ibuprofen in this age group unless you consult a doctor).

Just be aware that co codamol contains paracetamol (so paracetamol should not be taken at the same time). Record the timings of when she takes the meds (to tell the paramedics). She should keep adequately hydrated - by drinking clear fluids like water or squash (even if unfortunately this does mean she needs to pass urine where she is).

LadyGardenersQuestionTime · 19/12/2022 19:26

Hang on, 999 said it's not an emergency and call 111? WTAF? If you have the bandwidth later you might want to consider a formal complaint to Welsh ambulance service asking for the call to be reviewed (will need to give date and time and aunt's location).

In my trust a lie of over 4 ½ hours would trigger an upgrade from a C3 to a C2.

She needs to drink; if that means she needs to wee and poo she just needs to get over it. Once the crew come there's going to be a lot to get through before she gets anywhere near a loo on her own two feet (pain relief, transfer to ambulance, drive to hospital, no doubt wait in the ambulance for handover, wait for X-ray/ct... etc etc.). This is going to be her reality for a few hours if not days. Unpleasant but necessary I'm afraid.

SetFreeTheKites · 19/12/2022 19:27

I hope you've managed to get her to hospital by now.
I'm a paramedic, and when we go to patients with suspected broken hips we do roll them, usually to get a scoop underneath them to lift them from the floor where they're often stuck. Please don't leave her lay on a wet bed - she would only need to roll slightly to one side to push the sheets under and slide clean sheets and a pad underneath, and then a slight roll the opposite way to pull everything through the other side.
Try and get to a chemist - co-codamol and some big incontinence pads would be very helpful. If she can handle it try and prop her up slightly so she can have small sips of water, perhaps through a straw.
There are over 800 people waiting for ambulances in my service area at the moment. Everything has broken.

LakieLady · 19/12/2022 19:28

MingeofDeath · 19/12/2022 18:45

Have just finished shift at an ambulance service trust, some poor buggers have been waiting for over 7 hours for C2 (supposedly 18min response) ambulance. These are people who are fighting for breath, are actively having heart attacks and strokes. As harsh as it sounds, a potential fractured hip will not be prioritised over these people. Some of my colleagues have been sitting crying at their desks. The situation appears to be the same nationally. I know in Kent the other day there were 27hr waits for ambulances, in the Staffordshire are a a few weeks ago there were THREE DAY waits. People are dying and there is nothing we can do, it's heartbreaking, I didn't sign up for this.

It must make you all so fucking angry, @MingeofDeath . People who work in the emergency services do the job because they want to help people, it must be heartbreaking not to be able to give the level of service you want to.

Especially so when you know damn well that the cause of the problem is nothing to do with your service, or even the NHS as a whole.

Nocutenamesleft · 19/12/2022 19:32

TheChinkOfaGlass · 19/12/2022 16:35

Hi everyone

My Auntie had a fall this morning and has seriously hurt her hip. Luckily she was close enough to the bed to get herself up on it.

999 said it is not an emergency and to contact 111, she was in severe agony and is 78 years old. I rang 111 who after assessing her, decided she did indeed need an ambulance.

I had originally offered to take her to the hospital but she lives on the top floor of a maisonette, and is unable to sit up (so a car journey would be no good and I would be unable to carry her to the car anyway. I did get help but she declined due to the inability to even sit up).

Her husband is disabled so isn't much use (I mean this in the nicest possible way, he is trying his best) other than keeping an eye on her.

So we could be waiting hours for an ambulance but in the meantime she is soaked through on the bed due to urinating on herself. I am going there in the next 30 minutes.

Is it safe to roll her to change the sheets to make her more comfortable? I don't like the idea of her lying in a soaking bed while she waits. I am also scared of causing more pain/damage by moving her. We do not know what's wrong, she thinks it may he her hip. I just don't know what to do. I have never experienced this kind of thing.

Her partner has managed to change her underwear but when the bed is so wet, it wouldn't really make a difference.

No! Do not roll her! There is an artery close to the hip and there can be problems with blood flow if broken hip.

susiesuelou · 19/12/2022 19:36

MingeofDeath · 19/12/2022 18:45

Have just finished shift at an ambulance service trust, some poor buggers have been waiting for over 7 hours for C2 (supposedly 18min response) ambulance. These are people who are fighting for breath, are actively having heart attacks and strokes. As harsh as it sounds, a potential fractured hip will not be prioritised over these people. Some of my colleagues have been sitting crying at their desks. The situation appears to be the same nationally. I know in Kent the other day there were 27hr waits for ambulances, in the Staffordshire are a a few weeks ago there were THREE DAY waits. People are dying and there is nothing we can do, it's heartbreaking, I didn't sign up for this.

This is really frightening. 😢

Nocutenamesleft · 19/12/2022 19:38

EmmaAgain22 · 19/12/2022 17:37

Poor Auntie
I think this should be in the urgent category as well

she says she needs to poop - could that be anxiety? Could you give her some imodium?

If she needs to poop why on earth would you suggest giving her Imodium?!?

IncessantNameChanger · 19/12/2022 19:40

How scary. Your poor Auntie x

StopGo · 19/12/2022 19:42

Afterfire · 19/12/2022 18:01

Absolutely this.

Show quote history

It's nothing new, has been the same for decades. It's just the media are highlighting it more.

Cookiecrumblepie · 19/12/2022 19:45

Can you pay for a private ambulance? Not sure if it's a possibility but if there are such services might be faster than waiting.

Canthave2manycats · 19/12/2022 19:46

Morechocmorechoc · 19/12/2022 19:08

This is a stupid thread. She clearly needs to be going to hospital.

"A stupid thread"???? There's definitely something stupid here and it ain't the thread!!

Hope this poor lady has received medical attention by now. The situation is scandalous.

Thought occurred to me that, if not, maybe use an electric blanket? It would keep her warm and (I know it's gross but needs must) dry up the wee?

Laiste · 19/12/2022 19:47

Gosh, we've got professionals on the thread saying do roll her AND don't roll her!

I hope someone has come to help OP. Your poor Aunt.
What a fucking mess this country is in Sad

greenhousegal · 19/12/2022 19:52

If I were in that situation I don't think I could let someone be in that state. Just say for instance you didn't ask for guidance here, and went with your instincts, well the first thing you would do is try to make them comfortable. If that means rolling them yourself to get dry padding underneath do it. Waiting for assistance forever is not going to help much anyway. Comfort care now is what I would do, along with propping up with pillows and giving pain relief and sips of water/juice whatever. If anyone has a sippy cup make some tea in that. Tell her not to worry about pooing or weeing, you have pads underneath. If putting pads underneath I'd put a few down together in the one move. Then slide out the soiled one and you have a clean one ready. A baby wipe will do to clean up.

God this is terrible. I hope both you and she will be ok.

LakieLady · 19/12/2022 19:57

RosesAndHellebores · 19/12/2022 18:59

@Rowthe and this lady is one of their patients. Emergency out of.hours was part of their role until Tony Blair changed it.

The ambulance can't there. In the meantime someone shoukd be providing some pain relief for this poor woman. If they have a damp they would.

We are in this mess as much because the public had nodded in gratitude for shit services for too long.

Vive la revolution!

This time last year, my MIL (84) was very ill with pneumonia and pleurisy. My SIL rang 111, who sent a doctor on call round, and he arranged for an ambulance to be sent.

She waited 9 hours for the ambulance, but during that time had 2 further visits from the same doctor, who checked her sats and everything. He also liaised with the hospital and/or ambulance service, and she was admitted straight into ICU.

Just because OOH care isn't delivered by GPs doesn't mean it's not delivered at all.

Soapboxqueen · 19/12/2022 19:59

Nocutenamesleft · 19/12/2022 19:38

If she needs to poop why on earth would you suggest giving her Imodium?!?

Show quote history

Imodium slows the bowels so would mean she wouldn't need to poo for a while

RichardMarxisinnocent · 19/12/2022 20:05

Soapboxqueen · 19/12/2022 19:59

Imodium slows the bowels so would mean she wouldn't need to poo for a while

Show quote history

Not sure it would help if she's already feeling the urge to go? Surely it's too late?

Catswhisky · 19/12/2022 20:13

We must be “lucky” as my BIL had an ambulance in less than an hour when he broke his hip a few weeks ago. He was in A&E 16 hours and had to wait 4 painful days for surgery though.
I hope they arrive soon, I suggest taking a warm blanket and her pillows for in A&E.

TooTrusting · 19/12/2022 20:19

In November 2021 (South Wales) my 83 yo DM with suspected hip or spinal fracture waited 22 hours for her ambulance. That was after 2 days of us asking for an ambulance and being refused one. When we got to the hospital she then spent 29 hours in the back of an ambulance. One of 17 backed up ambulances. In fact our ambulance came from Brecon as our major city (60 minutes drive away) had not one single free ambulance.
It was inhumane. We changed ambulances 3 times and saw 3 paramedic shift changes. 3 entire consecutive shifts saw 6 paramedics tending to one single patient stuck in the back of a stationary ambulance. And the same for the other 16 ambulances. So demoralising. And what an utter waste of resources. I had a lodger who was the senior registrar in the same A&E and he says the department is properly staffed and they have the capacity (in human terms) to treat far more patients. However the department is too small and not fit for purpose. He has told me that if anything happens to any of us to get in the car and go to Bristol and we'll be there and back and treated hours before we'd even start to be treated at our local hospital. We cannot blame the Tories for this in Wales, health has been devolved for years here and mismanaged by the Labour govt. Our hospitals, unlike in England, do not have to publish whether targets are being met (or rather how much they are being missed) so there is no accountability and nobody knows how bad things really are.
I'm very sorry for what is happening to your aunt OP.

FOJN · 19/12/2022 20:29

Laiste · 19/12/2022 19:47

Gosh, we've got professionals on the thread saying do roll her AND don't roll her!

I hope someone has come to help OP. Your poor Aunt.
What a fucking mess this country is in Sad

The people on the thread saying it's OK to roll are either trained to do it safely or talking about a hospital situation.

Others are balancing the risk of further injury against the complications of leaving an older patient lying in one position in a wet bed. Remaining in that situation for a prolonged period could have consequences for recovery.

The only ideal answer here is a swift transfer to hospital for assessment, correct diagnosis and appropriate treatment but that option doesn't seem imminent so the OP will have to use her judgement to do the best she can in a completely shitty situation.

Babyroobs · 19/12/2022 20:30

TheChinkOfaGlass · 19/12/2022 16:42

@Stressedmum2017 Just so worried about rolling her. When she moves, she is in absolute agony :(

I would try not to move her. Sounds like she could have fractured her femur. Is the leg externally rotated at all ? I know it's difficult when she is wet. try to tuck some dry sheet under her.

Babyroobs · 19/12/2022 20:31

TooTrusting · 19/12/2022 20:19

In November 2021 (South Wales) my 83 yo DM with suspected hip or spinal fracture waited 22 hours for her ambulance. That was after 2 days of us asking for an ambulance and being refused one. When we got to the hospital she then spent 29 hours in the back of an ambulance. One of 17 backed up ambulances. In fact our ambulance came from Brecon as our major city (60 minutes drive away) had not one single free ambulance.
It was inhumane. We changed ambulances 3 times and saw 3 paramedic shift changes. 3 entire consecutive shifts saw 6 paramedics tending to one single patient stuck in the back of a stationary ambulance. And the same for the other 16 ambulances. So demoralising. And what an utter waste of resources. I had a lodger who was the senior registrar in the same A&E and he says the department is properly staffed and they have the capacity (in human terms) to treat far more patients. However the department is too small and not fit for purpose. He has told me that if anything happens to any of us to get in the car and go to Bristol and we'll be there and back and treated hours before we'd even start to be treated at our local hospital. We cannot blame the Tories for this in Wales, health has been devolved for years here and mismanaged by the Labour govt. Our hospitals, unlike in England, do not have to publish whether targets are being met (or rather how much they are being missed) so there is no accountability and nobody knows how bad things really are.
I'm very sorry for what is happening to your aunt OP.

Gosh that's shocking, your poor DM.

McCrispish · 19/12/2022 20:33

My 86 year old Grandad had a fall last week and fractured his hip, it took over 20 hours for an ambulance to turn up. He was in alot of pain and moving him was out of the question. He ended up with a total hip replacement due to the severity of the fracture and an infection, he is still in the hospital and will be for sometime. Goodluck.