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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

I know IABU, blatantly using this for traffic. Emergency situation, no ambulance still, and need advice

765 replies

TheChinkOfaGlass · 19/12/2022 16:35

Hi everyone

My Auntie had a fall this morning and has seriously hurt her hip. Luckily she was close enough to the bed to get herself up on it.

999 said it is not an emergency and to contact 111, she was in severe agony and is 78 years old. I rang 111 who after assessing her, decided she did indeed need an ambulance.

I had originally offered to take her to the hospital but she lives on the top floor of a maisonette, and is unable to sit up (so a car journey would be no good and I would be unable to carry her to the car anyway. I did get help but she declined due to the inability to even sit up).

Her husband is disabled so isn't much use (I mean this in the nicest possible way, he is trying his best) other than keeping an eye on her.

So we could be waiting hours for an ambulance but in the meantime she is soaked through on the bed due to urinating on herself. I am going there in the next 30 minutes.

Is it safe to roll her to change the sheets to make her more comfortable? I don't like the idea of her lying in a soaking bed while she waits. I am also scared of causing more pain/damage by moving her. We do not know what's wrong, she thinks it may he her hip. I just don't know what to do. I have never experienced this kind of thing.

Her partner has managed to change her underwear but when the bed is so wet, it wouldn't really make a difference.

OP posts:
ThreeLocusts · 20/12/2022 22:53

OP what a nightmare. No advice, sorry, but will be crossing fingers for you. Also, it sounds like you're a good person to have around in a crisis. Your mum and aunt are lucky in that way.

Pelo22 · 20/12/2022 22:54

SnowlayRoundabout · 20/12/2022 22:49

This is utterly horrendous. 36 hours' wait for someone with a potentially broken hip? Seriously OP, I would phone and emphasise that you believe she is going downhill and this is now a really dangerous situation. Some idiot has put your aunt on the lowest priority category and that needs to change.

It's NOT the ambulance services fault though, and they aren't an idiot
They can't get to heart attacks, cardiac arrests, asthma attacks at the minute, and (as the OP understands) a broken hip isn't a priority
They've given it the right priority, they just can't get there
My local ambulance service has 600 calls which are awaiting ambulances, how are they meant to attend all those plus the constant calls coming in, when the ambulances are stuck at hospital or on another call?

It's shit

Dulcetto · 20/12/2022 22:54

This is awful to say and obviously a cardiac issue or stroke etc. is very serious but at least you might have a chance of getting them in a car if an ambulance wait was going to be hours. This injury feels like such a helpless situation as nothing you can do that doesn’t risk more damage - but there comes a point at which I’m wondering whats the damage of leaving a broken hip for 48h.

SnowlayRoundabout · 20/12/2022 22:55

SnowlayRoundabout · 20/12/2022 22:49

This is utterly horrendous. 36 hours' wait for someone with a potentially broken hip? Seriously OP, I would phone and emphasise that you believe she is going downhill and this is now a really dangerous situation. Some idiot has put your aunt on the lowest priority category and that needs to change.

And, just to clarify my message, telling the ambulance people you believe the situation is dangerous is not a lie as you've expressed that view here - and, indeed, it must be bloody obvious that this is potentially very dangerous for an 89 year old..

Bepis · 20/12/2022 22:57

EricNorthmanYesPlease · 20/12/2022 22:27

I think more employers need to provide private medical insurance to help ease the burden.

Hopefully with the military drafted in, they may get round to patients quicker. Its absolutely appaling.

They are only going to be responding to Cat 1 calls though so the OPs aunt would not come into that bracket unfortunately.

Allsnotwell · 20/12/2022 22:58

www.ambulance.wales.nhs.uk/en/58

worth a ring

Strictlyfanoftenyears · 20/12/2022 22:59

The RSPCA would have something to say if you had a dog in this situation with a suspected broken hip!!

Bepis · 20/12/2022 23:00

Strictlyfanoftenyears · 20/12/2022 22:59

The RSPCA would have something to say if you had a dog in this situation with a suspected broken hip!!

You'd be prosecuted for neglecting your pet. But then it's ok to do to humans 🤔

SnowlayRoundabout · 20/12/2022 23:02

They can't get to heart attacks, cardiac arrests, asthma attacks at the minute, and (as the OP understands) a broken hip isn't a priority

According to whichever under-minister that was on Radio 4 this morning, they are getting to the heart attacks etc, just a bit more slowly - by which he meant that it was over an hour rather than the designated 20 minutes or so. I would however fully accept that he was almost certainly telling porkies.

Really, this situation is intolerable and it seems to have deteriorated very badly in the last few months. Witness also all the reports of incredibly long waits in A&E. I'm sure that it is down to lack of staff post Brexit in both the health service and the care system, and also drastic underfunding. This bloody government has to go.

DrSmoot · 20/12/2022 23:12

This bloody government has to go
Absolutely.
This poster has a great idea how to get them to fund the NHS, if only…

vm.tiktok.com/ZMFnF7wVb/

CrocodilesCry · 20/12/2022 23:18

Can I ask is there a reason she is calling the hospital instead of you or her calling 999 again to see when the ambulance will come?
If she has been waiting more than 40 hours now surely it's the ambulance service that need to come? Don't get me wrong it's absolutely shocking, but as you and a previous poster has said the hospital cannot influence a 999 ambulance coming - which she needed yesterday morning!
I'm appalled on your behalf but I don't really understand why she's calling the hospital?

MistressoftheDarkSide · 20/12/2022 23:20

Been checking this thread because I'm in a state of horrified disbelief at the whole situation - am absolutely gobsmacked at it and all I can do obviously is echo the other supportive posters here and send my fervent hope this is resolved soon although I have my doubts if there is strike action tomorrow x

Call me a tin foil hat conspiracy theorist but it almost smacks of eugenics by stealth at this point ..... how many people are actually dying for want of medical care not because of the strikes (which I support because how else can one make the point that this whole shitshow is untenable) but because our healthcare infrastructure has been edged towards privatisation by stealth for the last few decades?

What the fuck is going on in this country that government officials can attend functions at politicians stately piles where drugs are detected afterwards, yet an elderly woman with a broken hip can't get the basic care that she and her husband have likely paid for through their working lives?

Is it hyperbole to ask these questions?

So many posters n AIBU cite resilience and that things will get better and there have always been tough times but in 2022 when plutocrat's can send rockets into space for shits and giggles yet government cannot/ refuse to provide the services they promise to get elected you have to wonder WTAF is going on?

Apologies for the rant - am just beyond sick of the structural inhumanity we now exist with.

OP - sending love, strength, fortitude and the sincerest hope that your Aunt gets the care she deserves very soon.

Fudgeball123 · 20/12/2022 23:24

I'd phone the fire brigade and say she is stuck. They could atleast stretcher her to the ground floor and then you could get someone with a van / similar to drive her?
Ambulance service is shocking..

EmmaAgain22 · 20/12/2022 23:25

MistressoftheDarkSide · 20/12/2022 23:20

Been checking this thread because I'm in a state of horrified disbelief at the whole situation - am absolutely gobsmacked at it and all I can do obviously is echo the other supportive posters here and send my fervent hope this is resolved soon although I have my doubts if there is strike action tomorrow x

Call me a tin foil hat conspiracy theorist but it almost smacks of eugenics by stealth at this point ..... how many people are actually dying for want of medical care not because of the strikes (which I support because how else can one make the point that this whole shitshow is untenable) but because our healthcare infrastructure has been edged towards privatisation by stealth for the last few decades?

What the fuck is going on in this country that government officials can attend functions at politicians stately piles where drugs are detected afterwards, yet an elderly woman with a broken hip can't get the basic care that she and her husband have likely paid for through their working lives?

Is it hyperbole to ask these questions?

So many posters n AIBU cite resilience and that things will get better and there have always been tough times but in 2022 when plutocrat's can send rockets into space for shits and giggles yet government cannot/ refuse to provide the services they promise to get elected you have to wonder WTAF is going on?

Apologies for the rant - am just beyond sick of the structural inhumanity we now exist with.

OP - sending love, strength, fortitude and the sincerest hope that your Aunt gets the care she deserves very soon.

I had a colleague on her 20s say similar

her grandparents can't afford heat and they are only using one lamp to light their flat

I'm starting to understand why people think there's attempts to kill them off. I thoght it was a bit tin foil hat, but maybe not.

Dulcetto · 20/12/2022 23:31

MistressoftheDarkSide · 20/12/2022 23:20

Been checking this thread because I'm in a state of horrified disbelief at the whole situation - am absolutely gobsmacked at it and all I can do obviously is echo the other supportive posters here and send my fervent hope this is resolved soon although I have my doubts if there is strike action tomorrow x

Call me a tin foil hat conspiracy theorist but it almost smacks of eugenics by stealth at this point ..... how many people are actually dying for want of medical care not because of the strikes (which I support because how else can one make the point that this whole shitshow is untenable) but because our healthcare infrastructure has been edged towards privatisation by stealth for the last few decades?

What the fuck is going on in this country that government officials can attend functions at politicians stately piles where drugs are detected afterwards, yet an elderly woman with a broken hip can't get the basic care that she and her husband have likely paid for through their working lives?

Is it hyperbole to ask these questions?

So many posters n AIBU cite resilience and that things will get better and there have always been tough times but in 2022 when plutocrat's can send rockets into space for shits and giggles yet government cannot/ refuse to provide the services they promise to get elected you have to wonder WTAF is going on?

Apologies for the rant - am just beyond sick of the structural inhumanity we now exist with.

OP - sending love, strength, fortitude and the sincerest hope that your Aunt gets the care she deserves very soon.

We’re going to need a new daily death count:

  • COVID
  • Couldn’t access healthcare
nolongersurprised · 20/12/2022 23:42

EricNorthmanYesPlease · 20/12/2022 22:27

I think more employers need to provide private medical insurance to help ease the burden.

Hopefully with the military drafted in, they may get round to patients quicker. Its absolutely appaling.

private medical insurance won’t help that much without private infrastructure and systems though.

In Australia the hybrid private/public system is facilitated by government funding the private services.

The public hospitals are the same as the NHS, free ED, inpatients, outpatients, therapy and outpatient mental health.

private insurance only gives access to inpatient admissions to private hospitals - you still need to pay to see private therapists (occupational therapy, speech, physio, psychology etc) and private clinicians including GPs. There are also private labs and radiology providers.

The government pays for all of these services through Medicare, a provider can charge on top of this and the patient will pay the “gap.” I took my daughter to a private dermatologist for her acne (now gone!), I can’t remember the fee but was 320ish, of which I paid about 170 dollars. Follow ups are much cheaper and also subsidised.

Some GPs will bulk bill, ie just be paid the government amount so there is no gap to the patient. Most private lab tests are bill billed, most imaging, but not all.

You pay a part cost for prescriptions, cheaper if you have a chronic condition or are low income. The governments subsidises the cost of the medications and you pay the same gap, irrespective of whether it was prescribed by a GP, private specialist or through the hospital.

I don’t think any of this would be acceptable to people in the UK though, because there are some costs.

i have recently tried to illustrate how well it can work by giving the example of a 7 year old boy with ASD/ADHD/gross motor delay and Anxiety.

He could see a public paed (no cost), bulk billing GP (no cost), have private blood tests looking for nutritional deficiencies due to picky diet (no cost), private X-rays when GP suspected a fracture (no cost) and go to public ED with a chest infection (no cost).

Fortnightly OT, physio, psychology and speech are paid for by the government though the National Disability Insurance Scheme, due to his disorders (no cost)

The parents would have to pay for his long acting stimulant medications, with the cost down to, say, 8 Australian dollars because his meds are subsidised because of his disorder and/or his parents are low income.

I’ve posted this before on MN and a typical response is, “I can’t believe you have to pay the equivalent of a few pounds a month for medications. I’ll stick to our wonderful NHS, thanks”.

There will be no appetite, I think, for an accessible private system unless the public accepts that everything won’t be “free”.

FixTheBone · 20/12/2022 23:46

IneedanewTV · 20/12/2022 22:22

So the very rich wait for an ambulance and go to A&E?

Don't worry, nobody here could afford it.

I treated a chap last yest who fell off a ladder and sustained several major injuries. On the day of his discharge, he said he had no family to inherit his estate and would like to dinate the cost of his care to the hospital.

Soon changed his mind when I told him the 5 week stay was around £340,000.

That's why there's no private ED in the UK, too expensive, and no profit in it.

lanadelgrey · 20/12/2022 23:49

Private medicine in the UK does the easy chronic stuff but not the acute emergency things. When there is an emergency you are transferred to the NHS.

MingeofDeath · 20/12/2022 23:50

Just finished another shift at an ambulance Trust. All I can say is wow. In all the years I have been a HCP, I have never had a shift like it. We are broken.

Bepis · 20/12/2022 23:54

MingeofDeath · 20/12/2022 23:50

Just finished another shift at an ambulance Trust. All I can say is wow. In all the years I have been a HCP, I have never had a shift like it. We are broken.

Are you able to share how it has been?

SkyView · 21/12/2022 00:00

This is such a sad & sobering read Op. Your poor, poor Auntie.Sad You & her husband must be shattered by now. I hope you can both get a little rest.

Slightly alarmed at all the current failures in the ambulance service, we were discussing our strategies earlier of what to do if we needed one, as I'm disabled. We realised that an Amazon* intervention may actually be quicker than an ambulance! In some parts of the country.

You obviously wouldn't get trained medical care or medication, but within 24 hours on Prime (although not at Christmas Hmm) you could buy a stretcher, plus bandages, splints, etc. Then you just need some strong neighbours & someone with a van or estate to drive you to the hospital. (I'm not recommending that for you obviously).

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a swift resolution for you all.

*Not an endorsement. Other delivery companies available. I detest Amazon & avoid them as much as I can.

justasking111 · 21/12/2022 00:01

Private healthcare works for referrals, MRI ultrasound, consultant diagnosis. BUT not emergency care. That's something the NHS have to do. You can have scheduled surgeries but urgent catastrophic cases the NHS.

Convalescent hospital I think we've gone backwards. Cottage hospital two of ours sold off. One donated by a wealthy mill owning family many moons ago. There's a caveat in the trust if the health board give it up it reverts back to the family.

Once upon a time they were used for minor surgeries and recuperating. That would help uswith bed blocking. That and getting individual departments social services hospital managers to agree at the meetings. They fight like ferrets in a sack at times

Pavementfaller · 21/12/2022 00:07

MingeofDeath · 20/12/2022 23:50

Just finished another shift at an ambulance Trust. All I can say is wow. In all the years I have been a HCP, I have never had a shift like it. We are broken.

Very sorry to hear this, but not surprised. Something really seems to have changed in terms of emergency health services over the last year or so, and not for the good.

I'm moderately ancient so have a few decades' worth of experience of visiting A&E. It's not somewhere I've haunted, but it's difficult to avoid with three children.

I went there last week after the pavement encounter giving rise to my username, and was quite taken aback by how different it was from my previous experience. It was early on a weekday evening, and A&E was absolutely heaving. Obviously sick and injured people were unable to get a seat and the crowded, noisy conditions were certainly not going to help them. When I eventually got to the triage nurse she said it was like that all day every day now.

I was moved through to what they called the Urgent Treatment department w
hre there was at least a bit more space, but that also filled up as time went on. There was only one very tired-looking doctor and one nurse working there, which meant they were having to waste time doing loads of non-medical jobs like fighting with the printer, showing people where X-ray was, etc.

It was pretty clear that the problems were down to lack of staff, probably combined with the well-known difficulty of moving patients to wards resulting from delays in sending patients home due to lack of care facilities.

This is ultimately down to a major government failure. It's a mystery to me why we continue to put up with these utter incompetents.

musicalkittens · 21/12/2022 00:07

Not read whole thread, but these might be worth contacting, if you haven't already.

St John Ambulance Cymru- has ambulances and will be appropriately trained, and even though you can't access the falls and frailty service without 999 doing it for you, you can contact patient transport:
www.sjacymru.org.uk/en/page/patient-transport-services

Private Emergency Ambulance - all Wales, will offer emergency patient transport which most private ambulance services don't. You will need to pay for it though.
awas.co.uk/ambulance/private-ambulance/private-emergency-patient-transport/

katesbushh · 21/12/2022 00:10

If I was closer I'd help.
I honestly think most hcp would.

I'd definitely be putting a call out on Facebook now for help to move her with people who know how.

I've seen a patient being brought into ED on a door before (because they thought they could avoid police involvement)

Ideally it needs to be something rigid to support her hip and keep it still
If you can't get any help perhaps youtube how to move someone with an unstable hip fracture.
I was very much don't move yesterday
But " long lies" Can be just as bad for an elderly patient.

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