I know IABU, blatantly using this for traffic. Emergency situation, no ambulance still, and need advice

[TheChinkOfaGlass]

Hi everyone

My Auntie had a fall this morning and has seriously hurt her hip. Luckily she was close enough to the bed to get herself up on it.

999 said it is not an emergency and to contact 111, she was in severe agony and is 78 years old. I rang 111 who after assessing her, decided she did indeed need an ambulance.

I had originally offered to take her to the hospital but she lives on the top floor of a maisonette, and is unable to sit up (so a car journey would be no good and I would be unable to carry her to the car anyway. I did get help but she declined due to the inability to even sit up).

Her husband is disabled so isn't much use (I mean this in the nicest possible way, he is trying his best) other than keeping an eye on her.

So we could be waiting hours for an ambulance but in the meantime she is soaked through on the bed due to urinating on herself. I am going there in the next 30 minutes.

Is it safe to roll her to change the sheets to make her more comfortable? I don't like the idea of her lying in a soaking bed while she waits. I am also scared of causing more pain/damage by moving her. We do not know what's wrong, she thinks it may he her hip. I just don't know what to do. I have never experienced this kind of thing.

Her partner has managed to change her underwear but when the bed is so wet, it wouldn't really make a difference.

Our ambulance trust has just declared a Critical Incident, which as we were in Business Continuity Incident before that must mean things are still worsening. It’s hideous.

Ah...I think I have been lucky with 111 call handlers for mum.

OP re food - would anyone sort this for you - my neighbour packed me a picnic last time mum went (it took the paramedics a long time to stabilise her, so neighbour used the time to do that). I was very grateful as it was 18 hours so maybe 20 hours from mum's fall to me getting home.

I know local farmers that did, they put the patient on basically a wooden board as a make shift stretcher, strapped them down with rope and bunged them into the back of a ford transit. Rocked up to a and e with the person. 😳

It was terrible because the poor person was in agony and screaming but it was that or leave them on the old tile floor for 13-14hours in a cold farmhouse.

Luckily they didn't do any more damage really!

People are literally having to perform the duties of the NHS that we all pay tax for!

It's not the staffs fault at all, honestly I think the staff are starting to see the desperation and lengths people are going to!

The government should hang their heads in shame. Labour have destroyed the NHS in Wales which is devolved, the Tories have fucked up NHS England. NHS Scotland is buckling also. But they are all ok on their superstar wages and private Bupa health insurance, sat on leather sofas in fancy buildings.

Sorry x post

food - can someone give you enough for hours at hospital?
so sorry you're going through this.

Captain OP aunt is warm at home though. Poor chap that you describe.

A bupa leather sofa doesn’t help you if you need an ambulance for a broken hip though!
I’m seriously considering working from home on Wednesday as the thought of being in a car crash with no ambulances is frightening. Broken my leg once and the thought of no ambulances is pretty scary.

Pain relief + equipment - our lot’s preference would be a stretcher to get her down to wherever they could get the trolley bed. If there is clutter you could help by clearing it out of the way. And have you got her medication to hand? If she has been to hospital recently a discharge letter can be really helpful, and if she has carers their paperwork can be useful too. (Appreciate you may have done all this already).

I feel terrible for this poor old lady and your situation, I would be so tempted to add breathing difficulties to the 999 call just to get them to bump you up the list! And also I would be on Facebook appealing for friends or friends who have a medical background locally to come and help you move her if that’s the right decision. I so hope this works out ok!

If it’s a case of nothing until the morning and the possibility of bedsores/ulcers from the urine etc, I would see if someone can remove a door from its hinges, or wood and and ladder and padded. So she travels staying lying down. But if she’s happy in the bed then stay as you are, but it’s important she doesn’t stop drinking and develop kidney failure waiting. It majorly sucks and you are doing great.

The trouble is the lack of staff and ambulances and they’re not leaving her for fun, they are genuinely trying to prioritise clinical need. So saying she has breathing difficulties means they take an ambulance away from someone with genuine breathing difficulties, or a heart attack or a fitting baby.
It sucks, but it’s shit for everyone.

Just to expand on this, though, I am in Australia and where I live if I call an ambulance it will come.

It’s true that in winter, when there was another covid wave “ambulance ramping” was in the news with some people waiting unacceptable times. However, >30 min for an ambulance at the hospital was considered “too long” and the issue was heavily politicised, by both major parties. it’s summer now, of course.

Right now, ambulances come and people with serious conditions are seen in ED within appropriate time frames. My DH works there currently and they have had busy days, especially with the RSV wave with children, but it’s safe.

It’s very easy to “blame” what’s in front of you in these situations, which in this scenario is people calling ambulances and, whether on purpose or not, exaggerating their symptoms so an ambulance comes faster.

However, inappropriate triaging and people turning up to ED with minor issues happens everywhere, not just in the NHS. The NHS isn’t broken because an ambulance goes to a cat 2 call for a 22 year old with a chesty cough, triaged as “acute chest pain”.

The issue is with your patient flow and stems from social care failings. Patients on wards are medically fit for discharge but have no where to go, there aren’t enough inpatient beds in general, patients needing the beds with acute issues are stuck in ED, ED patients are in corridors and even seen in ambulances. it’s exacerbated by overworked doctors/nurses - discharges can’t be planned for and prioritised when staff are dealing with sick patients. And patients are sicker because of hours spent waiting for ambulances and difficulties accessing primary care.

This is a more than a public education issue. I have worked in a number of Australian hospitals, well people come in by ambulance for very minor issues there as well (2 hours of slight headache, hasn’t tried pain relief, slightly sore throat, well school age child with a one off fever spike “just in case”).

"I am in Australia and where I live if I call an ambulance it will come."

But in most Australian states you will have to pay for that ambulance.

This is so awful. I hope the ambulance comes soon?

It’s paid for by the State government in QLD

I'm really bloody angry at some of the responses on here. A person's age is nothing to do with how they are prioritised, priority is determined by clinical need. As for the fuckers who are saying exaggerate the symptoms hang your heads in shame as you are contributing to the problems. JFC

My trust has declared a critical incident. We’ve had patients waiting awful lengths of time (we had a cat 3 waiting 23hrs and cat 2s waiting up to 8/10hrs). Sadly the chances are after waiting for ambulance for hours and hours she’ll probably sit on an ambulance for hours outside the hospital and then sit on a hospital trolley in a corridor for more hours, but at least once a crew arrive she’ll be given good analgesia.

someone mentioned phoning and lying saying she had breathing difficulties, this ‘may’ work for an upgrade but would be then be taking an ambulance away from someone who was having genuine difficulties

it’s a difficult one, no one should wait that long for an ambulance…..the system is broken 😞

we hate going to jobs that have been waiting these lengths :(

I can’t believe there is still no ambulance?! Please keep us updated.

A friend in North Wales has a Cardiac history as well as being diabetic. She felt really unwell and had issues with her heart racing - the ambulance service sent a taxi after 7 hours. He came from Chester , didnt know where he was going and once he learned she had cardiac issues was really not keen on taking her in case anything happened. He did in the end and then dumped her outside the hospital

Ambulance cover per state

i know everyone in the UK is horrified at the thought of paying for ambulance cover, but it’s not as brutal as it seems. In most states, if it’s not free for all, it’s free if you are a pensioner or have a health care care card (low income).

Lots of exceptions for accidents and the like. Before it was free in our state I think we paid 50 dollars a year through BUPA. Which would NOT have to be paid by low income people because it was free for them.

This is absolutely shocking, my heart goes out to you and your relative. Can you move a TV or radio nearby to distract from the pain? Thank goodness the temperature has risen, and she's not too cold
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My trust has declared a critical incident. We’ve had patients waiting awful lengths of time (we had a cat 3 waiting 23hrs and cat 2s waiting up to 8/10hrs). Sadly the chances are after waiting for ambulance for hours and hours she’ll probably sit on an ambulance for hours outside the hospital and then sit on a hospital trolley in a corridor for more hours, but at least once a crew arrive she’ll be given good analgesia

I know that nobody in the UK wants the hybrid private/public systems that other European countries have and that occurs in Australia but the NHS isn’t working anymore.

Hope you and your lovely Auntie are OK. I am so shocked and horrified that you have been waiting so long for an Ambulance. Hope you get picked up soon. Xxx

Our trust in Wales declared a critical incident this morning. My son said we might as well die at home now.

@StunningScreamer No, Wales had its own pandemic response, made its own laws, regulations and guidelines. Spent the entire multi million payment from Westminster on field hospitals. All of which went unused. Then they introduced nonsensical restrictions which had nothing whatsoever to do with infection control. Eg When those in England were able to buy whatever was sold in the supermarkets, we were banned from buying non-essentials. No guidance as to what non-essentials were exactly, so some supermarkets cordoned off menstrual/sanitary products. It was absurd.

After sharing my DM's own horrendous experience with waiting times last November, I simply responded to the smattering of posts about the Tories ruining the NHS to point out that in Wales it's Labour who has ruined the Welsh NHS. As another PP has confirmed.

In my DM's case the ambulance service phoned every 3 hours to update us, including throughout the night. That allowed us to share any change in her condition and seek advice. Obviously that's a thing local to here because nobody else has said they got any similar updates and OP isn't getting any.

ITV interviewed Drakeford the other day. He's adamant that there's no money for the pay rise etc because they'd spent up on winter fuel payments for the needy. It's not going to improve any time soon