For all those who support the strikes

[chopc]

Where do you think the money will come from for all the pay rises? Are you personally willing to pay more tax?
We all saw during the pandemic it is the poorly paid essential workers that kept the country going and they totally deserve more money than the claps they got. However will YOU be prepared to contribute to the pot ?

If not where do you think the govn will find more money from?

☝️ this

Well, We had the 11 billion that Rishi cost us when he forgot to insure the national debt. And we had the 37 billion for the failed Test and Trace that never really cut infection. And we had the 9 billion for the defective PPE. And we had the 30 billion that Liz Truss cost us in her Mini Budget. And of course we've had the 31 billion that Brexit has cost us so far. Which adds us to 118 billion.

So there's no magic money tree and we simply don't have the money for these pay rises for the public sector. It's just maths. Or is it a corrupted Tory Government.

The easiest way to find the money would be A series of weath tax:

End Non Dom Status - 3 billion pounds. Annual 1% tax on wealth over 5million - 10 billion pounds. 45p income tax rate over £80,000 and a 50p rate for income over £125,000 - 6 billion. Finally, if you equalise dividends and capital gains tax with income tax rates, that would raise 21 billion pounds. These measures would raise 40 billion.
This isnt thinking about a windfall tax or ending the loophole which allows the rich to not pay tax on their companies (Google, Amazon etc) or the super rich squirrling away their billions in offshore accounts...

Perhaps MP's could put an end to paying their energy bills from their second homes on expenses and allowances when they earn £84,000 anyway. This is when their pay has increased by 28% since 2010 and have had a £2200 pay rise this year alone during the cost of living crisis.

But there's no money for nurses....

Yep, less generous pension scheme could fund a raise I reckon.

There is not more money. All the lockdown already spent all of it. £1 trillion of it to be precise. Yes that’s right. The Covid restrictions to make you ‘feel safe’ cost £1 trillion of borrowed and printed money.

Of course you can continue to borrow and print more, but I think everyone here already has a problem wit the 15% inflation we have now. So it might not be such a good idea.

It’s like some people in this forum don’t understand a single thing about the economy. You can’t have it both ways. Froth at the mouth in the summer of 2020 because your neighbour took their second walk of the the day. And demon higher pay for public sector workers when the chickens come home to roost.

MP pay has increased 28% since 2010.

Oh dear. These ideas are even worse than what the government has already done. A lesson in how to kill your economy stone dead. No wonder the country is a mess when the general population comes out with stuff like this.

I know lots who already opt out of paying much into their pension (the amount the employer then pays in is consumerate so they're getting less employer contiribution). This creates its own issues though, many people once they reach say 50 and are exhausted by shift work and their bodies tired from the physical demands only really stay for the pension. The pension trap is nothing new and is widely recognised of keeping highly experienced people in these jobs- does this not just create more issues?

The quote missed off my message! I was pointed out the MP pay rise in response to the pp who claimed they had only had a small payrise.

So MPs should sack all their staff? They're public sector workers. Their wages make up the majority of expense claims.

What do you propose then to address the chronic shortage of healthcare staff? At this point the nhs cannot even provide adequate emergency care which is terrifying.

Yes.
They could find money (many of the reasons already listed). It’s clear that some change needs to happen.

Tax the rich.

Yeh, I'd be happy to pay more tax if it meant saving the NHS. But my piddly wage isn't gonna help anyone. Tax The Rich. Corporation Tax needs to increase. Stricter laws about tax avoidance. Windfall tax.

TAX THE RICH

And we still get the most incompetent, brain dead, thick people in parliament. What does that tell you? That they’re not paid enough. Smart people, enterpeneurs, business owners, strategists and creators get a lot more morning in the private sector.

We get the politicians we pay for.

Who are the rich? Anyone earning £1 more than you? Care to share elaborate on your placard slogan?

All those saying we could just raise the money by collecting more taxes from corporates and non doms etc...well that would involved funding HMRC better, which would in turn include paying its staff more so they don't get tempted to work in the private sector assisting tax evaders. Which takes us back to the point that all public sector staff need fairer pay. I support the strikes.

You don’t think £28k is a good starting salary for a teacher? Plus the decent public sector pension? What do you think they should start on then?

Yes- partly because (as suggested for NHS staff by a previous poster) they changed the pension structure for MPs to make it far less generous.

This.

I also agree to this.

I would fully fund training for nurses in return for a tie in to working for the NHS for something like 5-10 years.

Starting salaries are only part of the story though. Many teachers get stuck for years at the same wage, and as schools manages their own budgets will often recruit the cheapest option- NQTs. The real issue in teaching is retaining people and children benefit from experienced teachers rather than a churn of new ones. Also ridiculously the bursary next year for some subjects is higher than the starting salary. People will be paid more whilst training then take a pay cut to start, qualified teachers could also be mentoring students who are being paid more; madness.

They do this in Wales already.

This is a very old narrative designed to put down workers asking for fair pay. You are basically saying "Even though money is available for other pay roses and projects, there is not money for you for complicated reasons you don't understand." It is a narrative designed to both make the caring professions feel stupid and selfish, when the reality is that they are neither.

There is money. I know, because I see the huge amounts going into funding private agencies to prop up the services I've worked in because of lack of staff. I also see where money is used elsewhere in our society. In is nonsense to say the economy would collapse if rich people had to pay tax fairly, because other countries manage it perfectly well.

The real issue is, that there is no choice but to give a pay increase if we want to NHS to continue to function. Services are on the verge of breaking down. So the money needs to be found, even if it means cuts elsewhere.

I am happy to pay tax to fund a generally fairer society so yeah.

in what world is it ok to give MPs significant pay rises but not the vast majority of public sector workers many of whom earn very little

I don’t disagree with you but I was replying to the comment which specifically said teachers starting salaries weren’t high enough.

For what it's worth...to give every nurse in the country a £10k/yr salary increase would cost £3.2bn directly (so probably £4-5bn total), which could easily be covered by hiking higher-rate and additional-rate tax by 1%.

I don't necessarily support strikes as a method of getting there, but I'd definitely be more than OK with that. I'm already paying a significant amount of higher-rate tax, as are most of my friends, and all of us are firmly in the "tax us more if it sorts this mess out" camp.