For all those who support the strikes

[chopc]

Where do you think the money will come from for all the pay rises? Are you personally willing to pay more tax?
We all saw during the pandemic it is the poorly paid essential workers that kept the country going and they totally deserve more money than the claps they got. However will YOU be prepared to contribute to the pot ?

If not where do you think the govn will find more money from?

@BirmaBrite

For NHS it's 20.68%, teachers pension around 25%, civil service 27%. Other defined benefit are similar, if not more.

It's not meant to be goady. In the private sector anything over 7% is deemed good and I'm not aware of anyone that receives more than 11%.

I don't want a "race to the bottom" but defined benefit pensions are hugely costly and for public sectors workers it's the tax payer that is footing the bill for their pension. Until we have a sensible discussion around the whole compensation package then we are going to get nowhere fast.

I think a model whereby public sector workers can flex and take a higher salary now and forfeit some pension benefits down the line should be considered.

I say this as someone that works in the public sector and am constantly educating colleagues of our pension situation when they moan about lack of pay rise. It's frightening how little people understand about their pensions.

^ apologies for the formatting

"Taxation and funding of public services isn't some sort of lottery, where people have a whip round to fund a scanner"

Actually, this is very nearly the real situation in the UK healthcare system. To provide the excellent cancer surgery and treatment available through the NHS at my local UK hospital (when I lived in the UK), the expensive robotic equipment was indeed paid for by voluntary donations - i.e through a whip-round and charitable contributions. Having paid for the machine, the charity also funds the training of the nurses, doctors and technicians that use it. The hospital Trust could not afford this.

That cutting-edge, 21st Century treatment is only available through the goodwill and donations of others is a scandal - a sign that Cameron's "Big Society " was a government abdication of its duty to look after ALL the citizens of the country.

As my German friends say, "In Germany we don't really do "Charity" - we pay our taxes instead"

HEAR, HEAR!

Corruption, ineptitude and greed - that's what we are up against.

Is that as a result of rises while you've been in the same job, or have you been promoted?

Right on cue, the Midlands Partnership NHS Foundation Trust is advertising for a "Director of Lived Experience" on £115k/year.

Nice work if you can get it, as they used to say. Of course there's money, if there's money for shite like this.

Just because someone thinks differently to you doesn't mean they are stupid.

Lived Experience is not shite though, service users have worked for decades to have their voices heard especially in mental health to ensure the services available are actually meeting the needs of those who use them.

"Being an MP is not exactly a job with significant career progression opportunities."

Well not if you discount the progression to Minister - with an additional £67,505 for a Cabinet Minister or £31,680 for a Minister of State. Or the "outside opportunities" that MPs with the right connections attract, from luxury trips to Qatar to full-blown "consultancy" contracts - e.g. Chris Grayling being paid £100,000 a year to advise a ports company after being Transport Secretary. No other job offers the opportunity to attempt to pass the cost of keeping one's horses warm on to the taxpayer.

My comment was in response to the pp who said MPs have not had much of a rise.

Just reading through all the replies

Everything needs to be overhauled - including the benefit system eg benefits available for only one child , social housing only 2 bedrooms. If you need to claim benefits with one child you already know you can't afford another

And minimum wage to be raised . However I wonder if this will mean that people won't be able to afford cleaners, gardeners etc The people who can afford them are already earning more than average so are unlikely to benefit from a raise in minimum wage and they may pay more tax if taxes are raised

The agency rate is the REAL cost the government pays to employ a member of staff.
NHS staff need to STOP bullying agency staff based on false premises and gossip.

Everything needs to be overhauled - including the benefit system eg benefits available for only one child , social housing only 2 bedrooms. If you need to claim benefits with one child you already know you can't afford another

How would you enforce this?
What about people whose circumstances change?
What about people who claim benefits because they can't afford to work and pay fucking outrageous childcare costs?
Should people with disabilities only be allowed one child?

Yeah I’d pay more tax
We will be anyway

that said my strongest and only allegiance is to the nurses

Those IR35 reforms are very much still in place and as alluded to already the unintended consequence is that a lot of the freelance work is now being offshored. I work in oil and gas, the industry has always tapped into a floating pool of consultant/freelance engineers to facilitate their projects. Most companies simply cant afford to keep a load of inactive staff on the books between projects so will instead assemble a project team each time they win a large job and demob it afterwards. It is not uncommon for a company to have a skeleton staff of under 100 people that gets ramped up to 500 plus engineers for the duration of the design phase. Now many companies have to carry out fairly torturous IR35 assessment to see if a contractor can be engaged on a limited company basis or PAYE via an agency. Those freelancers typically are on a weeks notice, have no sick pay, holiday pay, pension, healthcare or long term job security. Yes there used to be perks insofar as favourable tax arrangements but they have been eroded (increases in dividend tax for one) over the last 15 years or so to the point where there is very little advantage given the above downsides. IR35 was just the latest thing that made a lot of freelancers not bother anymore and for the older ones they just retired.

Sunaks wife taxes? I assume as wife of the PM the billionaire lady no longer has non dom status?

problem solved.

So basically you think punishing the poor is the way ? Clearly you have very little knowledge of how economics work

We all saw during the pandemic it is the poorly paid essential workers that kept the country going and they totally deserve more money than the claps they got. However will YOU be prepared to contribute to the pot ?

Let's turn this discussion around.

If you could see a GP at any time just by walking in to the surgery. If the GP's medical centre had facilities such as X-ray and ultrasound scanners (saving you a trip to the local hospital and time waiting for results and follow-up appointments etc.). If there were no waiting lists to speak of. If a minor surgical operation could take just 5 weeks from seeing the GP to seeing the Consultant and having the surgery. If there were no waits for ambulances. If there were twice the number of doctors per 1,000 population than currently in the UK.

How much tax would you expect to pay? (More / less / the same as now?)
How much better would it be for your general everyday health if you knew that should you or your relatives, neighbours, friends fall ill or have an accident, a suitable and modern health service as described above would be in place and available to everyone?

Frankly, 115k however mis spent... (and i have no idea what a Lived Experience Director does..) is chicken feed in terms of running a trust.

However, i did look up my local Trust, one of the biggest in the country in terms of area covered... fortunately nothing weird.... 8 posts... all seemed relevant.

I hope the Midlands is a one off?

But if you want a well run Trust... then i'm afraid management is essential for front line staff to do their roles.

Yes there is money, £11 billion un collected tax owed... according to R4.... FFS £11 billion! written off.. like covid furlough fraud.. that was billions too

Everything needs to be overhauled - including the benefit system eg benefits available for only one child , social housing only 2 bedrooms. If you need to claim benefits with one child you already know you can't afford another

Are you really so simple minded that you don't understand that life doesn't work like this?

Life for a man with 3 children then his wife died, his private rental he can't afford and he has to wait to be evicted before he can get a council house. He is now out of work as he is looking after the dc and trying to keep everything together. You want to punish him further by only allowing him a 2 bed council property and benefits for one child.

Trouble is that a rise in minimum wage can put you in danger of falling within the tax threshold, which is almost self defeating.

@ClangingBell I am deeply sorry that your husband died and left you with two young children. That is a wicked turn of fate.

Presumably you have access to benefits as a single parent in straitened circumstances?

I agree nobody plans on their partner dying but it is prudent to make plans in case they do when one plans to start a family. To put in place life insurance or critical Ill health insurance, particularly if you don't work in the public sector with generous sick pay and pensions. I didn't work for seven years when the dc were small - we planned for that so we could afford it. Also DH took out life insurance on my life even though I wasn't bringing in an income because he knew he would have spend a lot on care if I were not there or lose his career.

I look at my grown up children and think often that if they were in the straits you find yourself in, then we would look after them, possibly not re childcare because we may be too old but we could certainly help with money. Just as the parents of a family member helped their dd when her dh died. They downsized and paid off their dd's mortgage to help out. That's what I call society and it starts with family.

I am sorry that your safety net hasn't been sufficient but I don't think you can blame a Conservative Government for whom voters have democratically voted. I am sure your choice of government will gain power next. I don't recall much being better regardless of the prevailing government. I don't recall super times in the 70s at all, nor do I recall them being better between 1997 and 2010. I believe that if we had had a Labour government during Covid we might be in an even bigger economic bearing in mind how Labour wanted to delay the return to normal. I certainly don't recall the mythical super NHS that is mourned from the start of my adulthood in 1978.

They were boasting of the role being the first of its kind. It may be a drop in the ocean on its own, but sum up all of the non-jobs and it adds to something more significant.

I agree that good management is essential. I'm just struggling to see much in the way of it.

Who hurt you?

I don't recall super times in the 70s at all, nor do I recall them being better between 1997 and 2010
I recall 1997 to 2010 being much better than now. I had young children and working tax credits were a big help. I could get a same day appointment at the GP and at weekends there were NHS walk ins that I did use (now I have been sent to a&e by 111 instead).
I used to work in the public sector then and my colleagues were reasonably happy and relaxed. They have all left recently citing the horrific work pressure.

I don't know on what measure 2010 was worse than now?